A MEGA-FRIDAY DIVIDING LINE ON TD JAKES AND ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM

Apprising Ministries wants you to realize that bromance ER2 is essentially a Theodrama thats scripted to appear cutting edge, but it really isn’t.

Christian apologist Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio likens it to the sitcom The Office, which is designed to look like a reality TV program.

You’re no doubt aware that in ER2 reputed Oneness Pentecostal and Word Faith mogul “Bishop” T.D. Jakes at first affirmed that he was a trinitarian.

However, he also said he preferred modalist language. So, we’re dealing here with postmodern Humpty Dumpty language as Jakes has essentially said, “I’m a trinitarian modalist.”

Against thAt background let me point you to A Mega-Friday DL on TD Jakes and Elephants in the Room by Dr. James White. He tells us:

OK, we’ve never crashed our servers before by going past the maximum number of connections, but, we did today.  I guess there is really a great deal of interest, which, on one level, is very encouraging.

In any case, I addressed the TD Jakes: is he a Trinitarian? issue head on during the first hour, and then took calls on the topic for a full hour after that.

The callers were wide ranging, and while none defended the ER or Jakes, they did provide some good insights.  Lots of positive feedback on Twitter and FaceBook.  Hope it will be helpful! (Online source)

You can download and/or listen to the program right here.

See also:

DR. JAMES WHITE TWITTER MINI-COMMENTARY ON T.D. JAKES IN ELEPHANT ROOM 2

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT

CHRISTIANS VS ONENESS PENTECOSTAL MODALISTS

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“TRINITARIAN” T.D. JAKES AT BROMANCE ER2

See also:

DR. JAMES WHITE TWITTER MINI-COMMENTARY ON T.D. JAKES IN ELEPHANT ROOM 2

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT

CHRISTIANS VS ONENESS PENTECOSTAL MODALISTS

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CHRISTIANS VS ONENESS PENTECOSTAL MODALISTS

Leading non-denominational online apologetics and discernment work Apprising Ministries continues surveying the evangelical landscape during this nauseating New Downgrade No-Controversy.

Things are worse than you probably even know; you will come to see that not even the non-negotiable cardinal doctrine of the Holy Trinity will be safe within the Reformed sectors of the church visible.

You’re probably aware that reputed Oneness Pentecostal and Word Faith mogul “Bishop” T.D. Jakes was in Elephant Room 2, which I discussed earlier in James MacDonald, T.D. Jakes & The Trinity.

I watched the Twitter hashtag for #ElephantRoom very closely and it appeared pretty clear to me that the personable Jakes really won the day. Comments were by far very positive insisting he is now a trinitarian.

However, in DR. James White Twitter Mini-Commentary On T.D. Jakes In Elephant Room 2—along with the insights of Dr. White—I shared the following salient commentary from Tom Chantry:

Jakes masterfully deconstructs the entire practice of theology. Don’t be fooled by the panel members who insist that he affirmed the Trinity. What he did was say, “I’m Trinitarian so long as I am free to express it in Sabelian terms.” He repeatedly insisted that Oneness folks and Trinitarian folks are all saying the same thing.

He dismissed the question as secondary – not worth division among the people of Christ, among whom he clearly counts the Oneness churches. Once he has deconstructed the very idea of systematic theology, he can affirm anything. So yes, he answered “absolutely” or “yes” to each and every one of Driscoll’s questions, but what does that mean? Not much. (Online source)

Having this segment on video myself, that’s precisely what went on in bromance ER2. So to help you get an idea of where this debate must head, I give you the following [circa 1985] from The John Ankerberg Show.

Get ready, likely the battle for the nature of God is only just beginning:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

You can find the rest of these segments here.

See also:

KEEPING YOU APPRISED OF: THE HOLY TRINITY

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

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T.D. JAKES AFFIRMS TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE

HT: Wittenburg Church Door

See also:

DR. JAMES WHITE TWITTER MINI-COMMENTARY ON T.D. JAKES IN ELEPHANT ROOM 2

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

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DR. JAMES WHITE TWITTER MINI-COMMENTARY ON T.D. JAKES IN ELEPHANT ROOM 2

Apprising Ministries continues coverage of bromance ER2 where today Todd Friel of Wretched Radio astutely observes we may be seeing a new coalition of contemporary “Evangelephants” emerging.

Frankly, I think ER2 was a scripted Theodrama designed to look like it’s going to be cutting edge; it isn’t. I’m someone who formerly adhered to Word Faith theology early in my Christian walk; and I’ve also personally interacted with T.D. Jakes as you can see in T.D. Jakes Says Ken Silva Is Being Obnoxious.

For now I happen to be a Southern Baptist pastor, as far back as 2006 in But Southern Baptists Say Ok To “Bishop” T.D.Jakes, I’ve been concerned about the heretical Word Faith mogul as he came in to preach at the SBC megachurch of Ed Young. Jr.

In fact, at this same conference former two-time SBC president Dr. Ed Young also shared the platform as well. So, as you might imagine, when the announcement that T.D. Jakes was to be part of ER2 it would naturally catch my attention.

When I investigated further the fetid fruit of ER1 it became pretty clear to me that what was going to happen at ER2 would be a bromance with T.D. Jakes in order to move modalism out of the way so they can bring Jakes into the mainstream of contemporary evangelicalism.

God be praised, I’m afraid I was correct. Tom Chantry provides a transcript of what went on with T.D. Jakes in The Elephant Room II, Session 4 Transcript. For now, I’ll leave you to make up your own mind based upon the evidence.

Here I’ll just share a quick comment from him, which is all too true:

Jakes masterfully deconstructs the entire practice of theology. Don’t be fooled by the panel members who insist that he affirmed the Trinity. What he did was say, “I’m Trinitarian so long as I am free to express it in Sabelian terms.” He repeatedly insisted that Oneness folks and Trinitarian folks are all saying the same thing.

He dismissed the question as secondary – not worth division among the people of Christ, among whom he clearly counts the Oneness churches. Once he has deconstructed the very idea of systematic theology, he can affirm anything. So yes, he answered “absolutely” or “yes” to each and every one of Driscoll’s questions, but what does that mean? Not much. (Online source)

This is precisely what went on in the postmodern obfuscation. Now I’m going to point your attention to the following salient mini-commentary on ER2 today by Dr. James White of Alpha & Omega Ministries via Twitter. He’s one of the few men of God out there with some spiritual backbone.

As such, I’m pleased to bring his tweets together for the edification of the church visible. Sadly, Dr. White is right as he begins:


(Online source)

Next Dr. White hits the target dead on as he tweets:


(Online source)

There was no push-back in ER2; in fact, if I was a lawyer I would have raised the objection of leading the witness. Dr. White goes on to state a cold, hard, fact:


(Online source)

Dr. White then drops the hammer with this tweet:


(Online source)

The Oneness Pentecostal/modalist could not answer yes, in good conscience, to this well-defined question. I could not agree more with the following tweet from Dr. James White concerning the basic message sent in this ER2:


(Online source)

Dr. White then shifted and his question questions directly to T.D. Jakes. First, he tweeted:


(Online source)

Finally, Dr. James White applies the coup de grace to modalistic/Oneness Pentecostalism as he asks Word Faith prosperity preacher T.D. Jakes:


(Online source)

We won’t be holding our breath for Jakes to repsond; he really doesn’t handle faithful Christians very well…

See also:

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

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EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE OF PRE-ELEPHANT ROOM 2 DINNER

See also:

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

DUNG DROPPINGS IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM: T.D. JAKES—JESUS IS THE PRODUCT

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

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MESSAGE OF ELEPHANT ROOM 2 SUMMED UP BY WELL KNOWN PHILOSOPHER

See also:

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

DUNG DROPPINGS IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM: T.D. JAKES—JESUS IS THE PRODUCT

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

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SO YOU WANNA PREACH LIKE T.D. JAKES?

Well, it’s so easy a 6 year-old can do it.

Here’s a li’l somethin’, somethin’ for all the pathetic people-pleasing Prophet-Führers like Steven Furtick.

For those boyz who long to be another T.D. Jakes, below Apprising Ministries presents some instruction.

Hey, if he can get “the Show” down, why there’s hope for you, too. ;-)

See also:

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

T.D. JAKES SAYS KEN SILVA IS BEING OBNOXIOUS

DUNG DROPPINGS IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM: T.D. JAKES—JESUS IS THE PRODUCT

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ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

Apprising Ministries continues our coverage of the dung droppings in the Elephant Room 2.

It didn’t get off to a very good start yesterday as two of my colleagues were immediately threatened with arrest as you’ll see for yourself in Chris Rosebrough And Erin Benziger Not Allowed Into Elephant Room 2.

Now it should be noted that heretical Word Faith mogul T.D. Jakes reportedly affirmed he believed in the Trinity. Tevin Wax, who was live blogging bromance ER2 noted the following exchange between New Calvinist Mark Driscoll and the WF prosperity preacher:

Driscoll: We all would agree that in the nature of God there is mystery. But within that, for you, Bishop Jakes, the issue is one God manifesting Himself successively in three ways? Or one God existing eternally in three persons? What is your understanding now? Which one?

Jakes: I believe the latter one is where I stand today. One God – Three Persons. I am not crazy about the word persons though. You describe “manifestations” as modalist, but I describe it as Pauline. For God was manifest in the flesh. Paul is not a modalist, but he doesn’t think it’s robbery to say manifest in the flesh. Maybe it’s semantics, but Paul says this. (Online source)

Resisting the urge to wrestle with the serpent, suffice to say Paul used manifest in the singular; he didn’t write manifestations, plural. From where I stand Jakes wants that language so that he doesn’t offend the modalists who make up a large part of his financial base.

That’s why I wrote this the other day T.D. Jakes Is Heretical Concerning Modalism Whether He Believes It Or Not. Leaving that, another Elephant in the Room is Jakes’ relationship with whacked WF flake Pastrix Paula White and other outrageously man-centered fellow WF heretics on the Trinity Blasphemy Broadcasting Network.

Below is a clip that I made from TBN’s Praise the Lord program 9/1/11, which T.D. Jakes hosted with his wife. They were promoting their Woman Thou Art Loosed 2011 apostasia-palooza. Well surprise, surprise, it was hosted by the Lakewood Church of WF preacher Joel Osteen, which is why I put together Megachurch Pastors Joel Osteen And T.D. Jakes Unite And Why You Should Care.

You watch, if there’s an ER3 don’t be surprised to see ol’ smilin’ Joel invited. On this TBN program Jakes had the three WF pastrixes making up the WTAL lineup. Pastrix Cindy Trimm, Pastrix Sheryl Brady, and Pastrix Paula White.

Now watch for yourself as Jakes introduces Pastrix Paula White. a rebel against the Word of God, as “this tremendous woman of God” whom he calls “pastor extraordinaire”:

The other thing I’m excited about tonight and really, really, really, glad to have is this tremendous woman of God. Who I feel silly trying to introduce her because everybody in the world knows her.

If you don’t know this woman, you don’t have a TV. You don’t have a cell phone, you don’t have a computer, you haven’t been anywhere. She is a pastor extraordinaire, she is a life coach, she is an author in her own rights.

She is a woman of integrity that God is using in a very, very, unique way; not only in Church Without Walls there in Tampa, Florida, but throughout America, and around the world.

Would you welcome, Dr. Paula White. (applause) We are glad to have you. We love you. We appreciate you.

You’ll hear from her very own mouth as Pastrix White tells T.D.Jakes is her “spiritual father” and mentor:

It’s my honor… Well, first I want to say what an honor it is to be with the two of you. In life I believe that, um, Henry Drummond said that we are all mosaics of the men in our life—the people in our lives—and that we become a part of those we interact with.

A large part of who I am—the development, the cultivation—the staying on a track, the maturing [in my life] is, is, due to the people that I have the privilege to sit with [here]—that I have been able to call my spiritual father and mother for almost 23 years.

I adore, admire, love, and respect [you]…

This is rotten fruit of T.D. Jakes…hold on, before it’s done. it’s going to get quite odoriferous in the ER2…

See also:

T.D. JAKES SAYS KEN SILVA IS BEING OBNOXIOUS

ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

DUNG DROPPINGS IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM: T.D. JAKES—JESUS IS THE PRODUCT

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ELEPHANT ROOM 2: MAY WE NOW REGARD T.D. JAKES AS TRINITARIAN AND ORTHODOX?

By Apprising Ministries special correspondent Daniel Neades of Better Than Sacrifice
This is a repost of an original article on Better Than Sacrifice

James MacDonald’s invitation to T.D. Jakes to participate in The Elephant Room 2 has been nothing if not controversial, as I outlined in my previous post.

MacDonald’s invitation to Jakes was no doubt well intentioned, and part of the motivation was surely to help break down the racial divide still all too evident in the visible church within the United States. Such intentions are commendable.

Why, then, was MacDonald’s invitation to T.D. Jakes controversial? For two primary reasons:

  1. Since he began his ministry, Jakes has been associated with the heresy of modalism, and has hitherto refused to embrace orthodox Trinitarian creeds or formulas.
  2. Jakes has consistently preached a false prosperity gospel, promising people that God will bless them materially if they give generously to Jakes’ ministry.

The Heresy of modalism vs. the orthodox view of the Trinity

Before we can examine Jakes’ statements at the Elephant Room, it is necessary to understand both the heresy of modalism and the Church’s historic orthodox confession of the Trinity.

In his excellent book, Heresies: Heresy and Orthodoxy in the History of the Church, Harold O.J. Brown (Ph.D. Harvard University, and professor of biblical and systematic theology at Trinity Evangelical International University) writes this about modalism (p. 99):

The word “modalism” is unfamiliar to most Christians, yet it is the most common theological error among people who think themselves orthodox. It is the simplest way to explain the Trinity while preserving the oneness of God; unfortunately, it is incorrect. Adoptionism [the heresy that Jesus became God at his baptism] preserved the unity of the godhead by sacrificing the deity of Christ; modalism, by abandoning the personhood of Christ and the Holy Spirit. Modalism frequently reappears as the result of failure to teach the doctrine of the Trinity clearly. An implicit or naive modalism is sometimes found in modern fundamentalistic circles that insist on the deity of Christ but are unwilling to make the theological effort to formulate a clear doctrine of the Trinity.

Modalism upholds the deity of Christ, but does not see him as a distinct Person vis-à-vis the Father. It holds that God reveals himself under different aspects or modes [hence, modalism] in different ages—as the Father in Creation and in the giving of the Law, as the Son in Jesus Christ, and as the Holy Spirit after Christ’s ascension. Modalism stresses the full deity of Christ and thus does justice to the tremendous impact he made upon his age, and it avoids the suggestion that he is a second God alongside the Father. Unfortunately it abandons the diversity of Persons within the godhead, and thus loses the important concept that Christ is our representative or advocate with the Father.

Notice that the error of modalism is not that it denies God’s working distinctively as Father, Son and Holy Spirit – modalism expressly affirms this – but rather, that it denies the existence of three distinct Persons within the Godhead.

In theological language, modalism affirms an economic trinity  (three distinctive ways of God’s working), but denies an ontological Trinity (three distinct Persons subsisting in one Godhead). Thus, modalists are able to affirm their belief in a trinity, but what they are confessing by that term is something other than the essential doctrine of the Trinity taught by the historic orthodox Christian Faith and believed by the Christian Church throughout the ages.

With Brown’s explanation of modalism in mind, read the statement of belief concerning God from Jakes’ own congregation, The Potter’s House:

There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three manifestations: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

It is immediately clear that this is the language of classic modalism, not that of Trinitarian orthodoxy.

We need also to understand why modalism is a deadly error condemned by the Church.

Here is Brown, again (Heresies, p. 99):

Logically, modalism makes the events of redemptive history a kind of charade. Not being a distinct person, the Son cannot really represent us to the Father. Modalism must necessarily be docetic [believing that Jesus’ physical body was an illusion] and teach that Christ was human in appearance only; the alternative, on the basis of modalistic presuppositions, is that God himself died on the Cross. Since such an idea is considered absurd—except by death-of-God theologians—the normal consequence is the conclusion that while Christ was fully God, he only appeared to be man.

Thus, modalism is considered heresy because it necessarily means that Christ did not really become incarnate. The Word did not really become flesh, and thus Jesus did not die with a real physical body, or shed His real blood. In other words, modalism necessarily invalidates the central doctrine of the entire Christian faith: that Jesus died bodily for our sins and rose from the dead.

Brown continues his discussion of modalism, explaining why some find it attractive (Heresies, p. 100):

Like adoptionism, modalism has a basis in Scripture. The adoptionists emphasize the Synoptic Gospels [Matthew, Mark and Luke] and their portrayal of the descent of the Holy Spirit upon Jesus at his baptism. The modalists emphasize the Gospel of John with its statements stressing the oneness of Christ with the Father, for example, “I and my Father are one,” and, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 10:30, 14:9). Instead of understanding these verses to mean that Christ is a second Person in perfect communion with the Father, they are taken to mean that he and the Father are a single Person, in other words, that he is the Father.

The word “one” in the Greek text of John 10:30 is the neuter hen, which suggests that the meaning is “one deity, one divine essence,” rather than one Person, but this is a rather sophisticated insight. It makes sense only if one can conceive of God as subsisting in distinct Persons, namely, in the Father and the Son (and of course in the Holy Spirit as well). Anyone who has not yet been able to formulate the concept of the Trinity in this explicit way will of course find it simpler and more plausible to understand Christ as saying, “I and the Father are one Person,” in other words, as presenting himself as a mode of the Father.

If the Son is not a real Person who can stand before the Father and address him, then the later Christian concept of substitutionary satisfaction, which holds that Christ takes our place and pays our debt to the Father, becomes at best a symbol, not a reality. Where modalism prevails, the concept of substitutionary satisfaction, or vicarious atonement, will necessarily be absent, and so modalism is sometimes adopted by those who object to the doctrine of vicarious atonement. More commonly, however, it simply arises as an attempt to reduce the mystery of the Trinity to a more understandable concept, even at the cost of the true humanity of Jesus and the doctrine of substitutionary satisfaction.

Modalism destroys the basis of the Christian Faith.

One can, of course, mistakenly hold modalistic beliefs out of ignorance. But one cannot understand and confess modalism while simultaneously holding on to the historic orthodox Christian faith. The two are simply incompatible.

By the early fourth century, the Arian heresy was raging. Arianism taught that, although divine, Jesus was nevertheless a created being. (Jehovah’s Witnesses are modern day Arians.) The Church responded to the Arian heresy with the Nicene Creed, adopted in its original form by the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325 and subsequently revised:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

(Note that the English word ‘catholic’ is derived from the Greek word meaning ‘universal’. Thus, when the Nicene Creed uses the word ‘catholic’, it is simply referring to the fact that the true Christian Church is universal, or worldwide.)

The Nicene Creed enabled the Church to distinguish between those teaching and believing the Arian heresy, and those who were believing, teaching and confessing the historic orthodox Christian Faith delivered by the Apostles and recorded in the Scriptures.

Further heresies arose, including modalism. The Church therefore developed language and confessions to refute those heresies.  By the early sixth century, the Church was using the Athanasian Creed. The text of this creed is carefully designed to exclude a number of Trinitarian and Christological heresies. It adopts the earlier language of Augustine’s On the Trinity (415 AD), and the confession concerning the Trinity arising from the Council of Chalcedon (451 AD). The Athanasian Creed therefore reflects the historic orthodox Christian Faith as received from the Apostles, recorded in Scripture, and understood by the worldwide Christian Church.

Here is the text of the Athanasian Creed:

Read the rest

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