I’ve pointed out many times now that as a general rule, and a courtesy, we do not publish email without the permission of the sender.
Such is the case here:
On Jan 5, 2013, at 4:54 PM, World Wide Web Owner wrote:
I am certainly glad God is gracious, because there is very little grace on this site. Beth Moore does not have audible conversations with God. Does God not give us inner impressions from time to time? It seems that anone who does not ace your doctrinal test and practice disciplines exactly the way you do is not only in error, but a heretic. There is a difference between warning of false teaching and taking on the role of the doctrinal police. Even if you do have it all figured out, the rest of us are learning and growing. The rest of us understand that right now we see as in a mirror dimly. It will take us a lifetime and beyond get there. But, congratulations to you for your early arrival.
This mail is sent via contact form on Apprising Ministries http://apprising.org/
On Jan 6, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Ken Silva wrote:
Thank you for contacting Apprising Ministries. Below in your little rant you said: “I am certainly glad God is gracious, because there is very little grace on this site.” Todd, I’m curious, would that be in comparison to your malevolent musings here?
You then dream: “Beth Moore does not have audible conversations with God.” Really; when exactly did she personally tell you that? Now, I’m guessing that in your email you’re referring to BETH MOORE’S “SABBATH MOMENT” PLAYDATE WITH GOD.
However, in her post Erin Benziger didn’t say that Moore had “audible conversations” with God; she merely said conversations. You ask: “Does God not give us inner impressions from time to time?” Sure, He could. He is God, He can do whatever He wants.
But this isn’t what Beth Moore is describing in what Benziger quotes in her article. Note what Moore herself says:
God spoke to me about capturing what He and I are calling ”Sabbath moments.”… God spoke to my heart one Saturday morning while I was preparing for Sunday school: “My child, in between more intense rests, I want to teach you to take Sabbath moments.” (source)
This goes well beyond mere impressions and on into direct personal revelation and conversation with God Himself. The same goes for the video Erin used in her post; a video, by the way, which I personally put together from my own copy of Beth Moore’s Believing God (BG) series.
First, here’s Moore’s own words from A Note from Beth Moore at the Amazon page for BG:
“God confronted me with the truth that though I had believed in Him for many years, I had hardly begun to believe Him. He made something clear to me that He has sent me forth to say to you: God is so much more than we have yet acknowledged and experienced. He is capable of tremendously more than we have witnessed. I have become utterly convinced that we see so little primarily because we believe Him for so little. Here’s the great news: God wants to change all that!” (source, emphasis mine)
That claim now makes her prophetess Beth Moore; allegedly sent forth personally by God Himself to proclaim His Word. Now the video; look carefully at the transcription below as to what Moore entreats us to believe:
Transcription: “… to beg to differ with people that are ten times smarter than I am. But I want to say to you I see something different than that. I see God doing something huge in the body of Christ. I do not know why I have had the privilege to get to travel around, see one church after another…one group of believers after another, interdenominationally, all over this country, but I have gotten to see something that I think is huge.
And I’ll also suggest to you I am not the only one. And tonight I’m going to do my absolute best to illustrate to you something that God showed me out on that back porch. He put a picture…I’ve explained to you before I am a very visual person…so He speaks to me very often putting a picture in my head.
And it was as if I was raised up looking down on a community, as I saw the Church in that particular dimension- certainly not all dimensions, not even in many, but in what we will discuss tonight, the church, as Jesus sees it, in a particular dimension.” (source)
Todd the fact is, Beth Moore makes far too many claims of direct, personal, revelation from God in her voluminous works for there to be any doubt. For example, just from that same BG series alone we have:
And this came as a direct revelation of the Spirit because this would never have come to me. I know God spoke this over me as He began turning through a concordance in my mind and I started thinking about one Scripture after another.1
You know what He told me not too long ago? I told you when I first began this whole concept, He first started teaching it to me about five years ago, and He said these words to me: “Baby, you have not even begun to believe Me. You haven’t even begun!” You know what He said just a few days ago? “Honey,I just want you to know we’re just beginning.”
Oh, glory! That meant I had begun. Hallelujah! But He was telling me, “When this ends, we ain’t done with this. Honey, this is what we do for the rest of your life.” And He said those words to me over and over again: “Believe Me. Believe Me. And I hope [God hopes?] it’s starting to ring in your ears, over and over again, Believe Me.”2
What God began to say to me about five years ago, and I’m telling you it sent me on such a trek with Him, that my head is still whirling over it. He began to say to me, ”I’m gonna tell you something right now, Beth, and boy you write this one down, and you say it as often as I give you utterance to say it: ‘My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief. My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief.’” And He said, “Starting with you.”3
O sure, Beth Moore sounds so very pious to include herself; but I can tell you with certainty that God never said that, because 1) He is the Source of our faith, i.e. God causes us to believe, and His Bride—the invisible Body of Christ—is spotless. God Himself protects it from error.
Todd, Moore’s ended up confusing herself here with her own man-centered inner burblings concerning the visible professing Christian community. And then there’s BETH MOORE AND HER CLASSIC CHAT WITH GOD, a near legendary story, with which she regales her audiences on a regular basis each year.
In her yarn she spins this:
It’s such a statement in my own life, and such a memory of God overtaking me… I had had a wonderful morning with Him and I was filled to the measure… [I saw] a flight hostess that is pushing a man in a wheel chair right to the end of my row, and there is nobody between us… I want you to know that Jesus went to a significant amount of trouble to make sure that I saw this man…[T]he Lord begins to compel my heart. Overwhelms me! Overwhelms me! Well, I have learned, I’ve walked with him a long time. I knew by now that is scary. God is up to something when he is overwhelming your heart like that.
I just thought, “Oh please, God, no! Oh, please! Please, God, no!” because I’m already knowing He wants me to witness to this man. So I say to myself in my spirit — and I’m not talking out loud, but in my spirit I’m talking to God silently. I’m sure my mouth is going – because I say to Him, “Do not make me witness to that man!
Now, I’m going to tell you, as clear as I’m talking to you now, the Lord spoke to my heart. There’s been very few times I’ve ever heard God be this articulate with me. And I’m telling you, word for word, these words came into my heart: “I’m not asking you to witness to him; I’m asking you to brush his hair.”
“Lord, that man needs witnessing to! [Laughter] What good is combed hair if a man is lost? And I can tell, Lord, that man – I am Your witness, I am Your witness! I am Your witness! I am Your girl! Me! Me! I’ve got the Roman road! Amen?”
Still, in my heart, I mean we’re just having a fight. “I didn’t tell you to witness to him. I told you to brush his hair!” I thought, “I don’t have a hair brush!” I fix my hair, and then it’s done for the day, until I unfix it. And the brush is in the luggage. Do you understand what I’m saying to You?”
So I say, “I don’t even have a hair brush!” And the Lord’s still compelling me… I’m just flooded with the love of Christ. I found the hairbrush; it’s one of those real old bristle ones…
I just kept brushing and brushing until that hair was as smooth as silk… That hostess came and put him on the plane. She came back out and she was crying, I mean hard. She said, “What made you do that?” I said, “Jesus! He’s the bossiest thing!” [Laughter]
Again, all of this is far from mere inner promptings that one may “feel” are from God. It’s beyond any reasonable doubt for those not under the spell of Beth that Moore is telling us about personal conversations she’s had with God Himself.
You also opine a la a Rob Bell:
It seems that anone who does not ace your doctrinal test and practice disciplines exactly the way you do is not only in error, but a heretic.
No,not at all; it isn’t my “doctrinal test.” I’m holding people accountable to what the Word of God says and to what the historic orthodox Christian Church has always taught. As far as “practic[ing] disciplines,” I’m not involved with spurious Spiritual Formation aka Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism.
Here we agree: “There is a difference between warning of false teaching and taking on the role of the doctrinal police.” Next you come with another favorite argument of people who’ve been infected with the evil influence of the Emerging Church:
Even if you do have it all figured out, the rest of us are learning and growing. The rest of us understand that right now we see as in a mirror dimly. It will take us a lifetime and beyond get there. But, congratulations to you for your early arrival.
Your apparent condescension aside Todd, no one is saying that we have the entirety of the Christian faith or God’s Word “all figured out.” However, for example, it’s part of my job as a pastor-teacher that I —
must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that [I] may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. (Titus 1:9)
This command from Jesus presupposes that there is something known as sound doctrine. And what is more, that one can indeed figure out what it is in order to be able to give instruction in it, as well as to understand it clearly enough, to then rebuke those who contradict it.
If you feel you don’t really have a firm grasp upon sound doctrine right now Todd, perhaps you’d find it beneficial to learn from what I am attempting to teach here at Apprising rather than trying to instruct me. May God open your eyes that you may recognize the time in which you live.
Ken Silva, pastor-teacher
Christian Research Network
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
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