Christian Research Network is a sister work of Apprising Ministries. Today CRN Associate Editor Erin Benziger of Do Not Be Surprised… brings to our attention an odd occurrence recently at Saddleback Church where Kay Warren, wife of SBC megapastor Rick Warren functioned in the role as teaching elder:

The Bible is not ambiguous in describing the necessary qualifications and characteristics that must be met by a man who desires to hold the role of pastor, or elder, within a church. In Titus 1:5–9 and 1 Tim. 3:1–7, Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, clearly outlines these requirements.

The Apostle Paul also delivered instruction regarding the role of women within the church:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 1 TIM. 2:11–14, ESV

This is the biblical admonition against a woman being ordained to the role of pastor in the church. While passages such as Titus 2:3–5 encourage women to live godly lives and to mentor and teach other women, Scripture is clear in its call for the role of pastor to be held by a man who has met the biblical qualifications. Though women are equally gifted and important to the vitality of a church, God is clear that they may not hold any authoritative position over the men of the church.

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) agrees with this biblical standard. Below is the SBC’s official position on the role of women in the church.

A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.THE BAPTIST FAITH & MESSAGE, VI. THE CHURCH, EMPHASIS ADDED

While other SBC documents may offer a perceived loophole in this instruction, most Southern Baptists would affirm the position stated above.

Saddleback Church in Southern California is officially registered with the Southern Baptist Convention, so it is presumed that they would adhere to the biblical standards set forth by the SBC in regard to women preaching. It is odd to note, then, that Kay Warren, wife of pastor Rick Warren, recently usurped the role of pastor by preaching the weekend services at this large megachurch.

For four weeks beginning on 11 March 2012, Kay Warren preached a sermon series entitled, “All Access: The Story of You and God.”

Audio and video of these sermons may be accessed by visiting the Saddleback media archives for the weekend services. These messages centered around the tabernacle of the Old Testament as Warren sought to teach that

God is a relational God and He wants to be in relationship with you…God wants to be at the center of the story of you, because the story of you is really the story of you and God. SOURCE

Even more recently, Kay Warren preached the Sunday service at the controversial Crystal Cathedral. On 30 April 2012, The Christian Post reported:

Author Kay Warren delivered a sermon on choosing joy at the Crystal Cathedral during two Sunday worship services that were taped for the Garden Grove church’s “Hour of Power” TV broadcast.

The wife of Saddleback Church founding Pastor Rick Warren adapted her message from her recently released book, Choose Joy: Because Happiness Isn’t Enough.

Warren told the congregation about her own struggles to find joy even when the Bible clearly states a Christian’s life should be full of joy.

SOURCE

While standing in the role of pastor for four consecutive weekends, then, Kay Warren undoubtedly found herself teaching a mixed audience of both men and women. How can this be reconciled not only with the SBC’s stated position on this topic, but with the biblical prohibition against women taking authority within the church? Should the body of Christ remain silent on this issue? If it was important enough for God to offer explicit instruction in His Word, then it ought to be of equal importance to Christians today.

See also:

SOUTHERN BAPTIST KAY WARREN PROMOTING DEVOUT ROMAN CATHOLIC JEAN VANIER

SETTING KAY WARREN STRAIGHT ABOUT ROMAN CATHOLIC MYSTIC HENRI NOUWEN

CONTEMPLATIVE SPIRITUALITY/MYSTICISM INVADES EVANGELICALISM WITH RICK WARREN AND KAY WARREN LEADING THE CHARGE

Apprising Ministries has long been telling you Word Faith Heretics Like Creflo Dollar Draw Nearer To Evangelical Acceptance. The fact is, Creflo Dollar has appeared a few times on Life Today with James Robison.

This is the same show that features wildly popular Southern Baptist Bible teacher Beth Moore each Wednesday. Below is a video clip of Creflo Dollar when he was featured on the January 3, 2012 edition.

Notice Robison tells us this Word Faith prosperity snake oil salesman “really understands abundant living.” Robison then explains he really wants us to “hear Creflo in some of the greatest insight” concerning financial matters:

(source)

Now consider that the men’s group of Saddleback Church, the flagship of one of Rick Warren—one of the most influential pastors in the Southern Baptist Convention—was studying the mythology of Word Faith prosperity teacher Joyce Meyer since as early as August of 2011:

(source)

In closing this, for now, following is an audio clip of Joyce Meyer teaching the classic Word Faith mythology known as “positive confession,” i.e. spoken words supposedly have creative power:

Finally. below is an audio clip of Joyce Meyer teaching a la reigning Word Faith king Kenneth Copeland the WF fable that human beings, created in the image of God, are then “little gods” by nature:

See also:

WORD FAITH HERETIC CINDY TRIMM RECEIVES AWARD FROM BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION

RICK WARREN, LAVERNE ADAMS, AND CINDY TRIMM

T.D. JAKES BRINGS ON THE PASTRIXES

If you’re not up on all of the background I refer you to Rick Warren Says No King’s Way Document And No Saddleback “Staff” Involved. There I showed you that Warren denies the conclusions Jim Hinch drew in his initial Orange County Register report on an alleged King’s Way document.

Today in OC Weekly Muslim Yasmin Nouh asks an interesting question: Why Does Rick Warren Need to Defend His Interfaith Efforts with Muslims? However, I think the more important question would be: Why Does Rick Warren Seemingly Need To Try And Coverup His Interfaith Efforts With Muslims?

Below is what Rick Warren said to his Saddleback Church this past Saturday about the Kings Way presentation discussed by veteran freelance reporter Jim Hinch in his Rick Warren builds bridge to Muslims. Our interest here is the highlighted section and Warren’s explanation:

(Online source)

The problem we often have with Rick Warren is the way he phrases things; for whatever reason, it usually ends up in obfuscation. What we’ve said is that this King’s Way presentation was held at Saddleback Church; and the picture below proves Jim Hinch was correct:

The actual evidence clearly shows this King Way was much more than a Bible study started by a mere “member” of Saddleback. This truth is, this was a presentation at Saddleback Church led jointly by Jihad Turk, pictured above on the left and Abraham Meulenberg, on the right.

For the record, Jihad Turk is Director of Religious Affairs for the Islamic Center of Southern California as well as:

(Online source)

Abraham Meulenberg, appears to be a bit of a murky character; but his Twitter account informs us he’s “pastor, leading Interfaith Initiatives” at Saddleback Church:

(Online source)

Amy Spreeman of Stand Up For The Truth also asks a key question concerning interfaith pastor Abraham Meulenberg: Why is a Saddleback pastor teaching on the Kingdom Circles? Spreeman offers:

With all the buzz about the interfaith aspect of Saddleback Church’s P.E.A.C.E. Plan and the controversy over the King’s Way initiative that partners Rick Warren’s church together with the Islamic community, many question just how Saddleback is reaching Muslims after promising not to convert anyone to Christianity…

In “The Mission” workshop, which was part of an International Ecumenical Fellowship, Saddleback Pastor Abraham Meulenberg and his wife Marieke spoke to a small group of attendees.

If you’ll notice the diagram behind him, the Kingdom Circles are part of the session…
(Online source)

As you can see from the video, the ambiguous question being asked is: How can Christians and Muslims both move into the Kingdom of God and find the straight path to God? Well, what is meant by “move into” the Kingdom? The Christian is already in the Kingdom through faith in Christ; but the faithful Muslim is not.

It’s time to look into what’s been going on with Rick Warren and “interfaith” outreaches from Saddleback Church.

See also:

APPRISING MINISTRIES EXCLUSIVE ON RICK WARREN, JIM HINCH, AND ISLAM

RICK WARREN AND TEACHINGS OF DEMONS

CHRISLAM AND THE GOSPEL OF ISLAM

For example, I carefully documented in Rick Warren And Teachings Of Demons that prominent Southern Baptist pastor Rick Warren clearly holds that the apostate Church of Rome, which anathematized the Gospel itself, is part of the Body of Christ and a legitimate expression of the Christian faith.

More on that another time, suffice to say here that this is also the vision of charismatic Southern Baptist Bible teacher Beth Moore as well. In fact, you need to know that this really is the prevailing position of much of the younger sectors of greater Christendom.

We shift slightly now and observe that Rick Warren’s become embroiled in a controversy involving Islam. I began my coverage a couple of weeks ago in Rick Warren, Islam, And Jim Hinch after personally speaking with Hinch, who was under the impression that Warren believed Christians and Muslims believe in the same God.

The conflict starts with free lance reporter Jim Hinch’s report Rick Warren builds bridge to Muslims, which ran in the Orange County Register. The story spoke of a “joint effort” between Saddleback Church and the Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC):

informally dubbed King’s Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims… At [a] dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King’s Way as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.” (Online source)

Interestingly enough, the ICSC itself is carrying Hinch’s story Rick Warren builds bridge to Muslims. At first glance this would all seem simple enough; a report of a dinner at Saddleback Church where Turk and Meulenberg (pictured below) present their joint effort involving a document they’d written called the King’s Way:

However, as I then showed you in Rick Warren, Ed Stetzer, And Watchbloggers, Warren denies the conclusions Jim Hinch drew in his initial OC Register report; and further stated:

Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don’t. Our God is Jesus, not Allah. (Online source)

The confusion really began to grow when I brought you a small section from what I was told is the King’s Way document in Apprising Ministries Exclusive On Rick Warren, Jim Hinch, And Islam:

I. WHO: we believe in ONE GOD:

1. God is one (Mark 12:29; Muhammed 47:19)

2. God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Al Shura 42:11)

In his piece Mattingly quotes what he says is an email from Rick Warren who absolutely insists that:

“Neither I, nor my staff, had ever seen such a document UNTIL the article mentioned it. It wasn’t created or even seen by us. … Saddleback church as a church was not involved,”… (Online source)

So this story takes on yet another twist. We have no reason to doubt Terry Mattingly received the email from Rick Warren cited above. However, it only serves to bring up more questions. What does Rick Warren mean by staff? He says, “It wasn’t created or even seen by us.” Who then would be the “us” to which Warren refers?

Is Abraham Meulenberg, listed in the article as a Saddleback pastor, really not part of this “staff?” What exactly is this King’s Way, which was presented during a dinner at Saddleback Church? And why all ambiguous language, which is so vague it quite easily allows for someone to interpret that this document is speaking of the same God.

Take for example, that’s how it was seen by Jim Hinch, by at least some at the ICSC, and then there’s On Islam. Before quoting from Hinch’s OC Register piece, they opened their own coverage of King’s Way Unites US Evangelicals, Muslims by stating:

Overcoming decades of misunderstanding, Muslims and evangelical Christians in the Orange County in California are establishing new partnerships that focuses on the principles both faiths share. (Online source)

Yet now Rick Warren has issued On Responding To False Accusations where he takes another shot at the integrity of veteran freelance reporter Jim Hinch and then levels an ad hominem attack directed at me:

Predictably, to defend himself after my interview corrected his errors, the Orange County Register reporter released a segment of the so-called “document” to the I-hate-Saddleback bloggers – giving them a supposed smoking gun. Unfortunately, he forgot to ask if any Saddleback pastors had actually signed or even seen this paper.

We had not! But now we’ve heard that there will be a second article this Sunday in the Register giving a platform and legitimacy to attackers who didn’t know the facts either. So don’t be surprised if it’s wrong again. (Online source, emphasis mine)

The record will show that I was the one who initially published the segment in question. Sorry to disappoint Rick Warren, but I don’t hate him, nor do I hate anyone at Saddleback Church. Now I know Rick Warren seems somewhat of a “teflon” pastor where no charge can stick to him, but perhaps now he’s finally gone too far.

Maybe it’s time for someone to begin looking more closely at Warren’s own conduct here, as well as the words he’s using in this sad situation. No Saddleback pastors “signed or [had] even seen this paper?” Let’s consider the following from Jihad Turk, whom Rick Warren refers to “a our Muslim friend,” and even links to himself:

When I was approached almost two years ago by Saddleback pastor Abraham Meulenberg who expressed interest in exploring ways that we can bring our communities together in friendship, I welcomed the initiative. (Online source, emphasis added)

As I get set to close this out, for now, I leave aside the alleged King’s Way document itself, and instead, point out that Warren’s Muslim friend seems to contradict his statement about no Saddleback pastors being involved. Well, which is it? So, I guess we now even have to ask: What does Rick Warren mean by pastor?

Have we headed into Bill Clintonesque double speak? I’m afraid it’s about to get worse for Rick Warren; I point you now to Jim Hinch’s follow up report released today. Among other things, in Effort to reach out to Muslims stirs outcry, note carefully what Hinch tells us about Saddleback Church concerning his original report:

In a series of phone conversations Feb. 27, David Chrzan, Warren’s chief of staff, told this reporter and a Register editor that the story was factually correct except in its statement that Warren believes Christians and Muslims worship the same God. It would be more accurate to state that Christians and Muslims both believe in one God, Chrzan said.

Chrzan asked that the Register publish a correction to the story but later withdrew the request. (Online source, emphasis mine)

One would think David Chrzan would be part of the “staff” Rick Warren referred to above. And Hinch’s own testimony is that his initial report was ”factually correct” according to Chrzan, who tells us himself that he’s a”pastor” and “Chief of Staff & Communications Navigator at Saddleback Church”:

(Online source)

Forget the idea of whether Muslims and Christians “worship” the same God and any charge of Chrislam. Here they only serve as rabbit trails. This a key point: If Jim Hinch’s story really is factually correct, then there would be a King’s Way document; and further, at least one other Saddleback pastor also knew about this King’s Way:

Tom Holladay, associate senior pastor at Saddleback, said the outreach to Muslims is part of Saddleback’s PEACE Plan, a wide-ranging effort to solve major world problems by mobilizing governments, businesses and faith communities.

“This is us serving our own community with Muslims here in Orange County,” said Holladay. “We realize we don’t agree about everything and we’re very open about that. … You just recognize the differences and recognize the points where you can work together.” (Online source)

To get to the bottom of this, someone needs to sit Rick Warren down and make him define the words he’s using.

See also:

JAMES ROBISON AND RICK WARREN WORKING TO REVERSE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

MARK DRISCOLL, ACTS 29 NETWORK, AND RICK WARREN

By now you’re likely aware of Rick Warren builds bridge to Muslims by veteran journalist Jim Hinch, which ran in the Orange Country Register. Hinch told us that back in December that Rick Warren began “an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims.”

One of the ways Hinch said Warren would do this is:

by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

The effort, informally dubbed King’s Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims. (Online source)

Apprising Ministries began our coverage of this in Rick Warren, Islam, And Jim Hinch when Warren accused Hinch of putting out an article with “multiple errors.” I also shared Hinch’s defense that came from my discussion with him.

Then I would write Apprising Ministries Exclusive On Rick Warren, Jim Hinch, And Islam after I contacted Hinch again concerning how I might obtain a copy of the King’s Way because it hasn’t been published anywhere.

He was kind enough to share the relevant portion concerning what it says about God. Then Ed Stetzer of the SBC’s Lifeway Research publishing arm decided to take a swipe at ministries like this and come to Warren’s defense.

So, yesterday I wrote Rick Warren, Ed Stetzer, And Watchbloggers where I helped to focus attention on the issues and walk you through what’s at stake. Briefly, one can see why Hinch said what he did.

The below was co-written by Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at The Islamic Center of Southern California:

I. WHO: we believe in ONE GOD:

1. God is one (Mark 12:29; Muhammed 47:19)

2. God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Al Shura 42:11)

Having the Bible and the Qur’an cited side by side surely gives the impression that we’re talking here about the same God Who “is one” and “the Creator.” This King’s Way document pretty clearly implies that the Muslim and the Christian believe in the same God.

The truth is, we absolutely do not; but now Rick Warren has come out and said he agrees with me on this point:

Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don’t. Our God is Jesus, not Allah. (Online source)

However I wonder, does Rick Warren and Saddleback make sure that the Muslims they meet with know they believe in a different God? And if so, then why use the ambiguous, and misleading, language? As another illustration of the confusion, I leave you with the below, which was up for around a month.

This post would then suddenly disappear. It’s the Islamic Center’s take on the dinner where the King’s Way document was presented, which Jim Hinch told us about in his initial report. The writer refers to it as an “historic event” at Saddleback Church “known for their famous pastor, Rick Warren.”

Note carefully what we’re told next:

Although only a select number of individuals were invited to this dinner, it demonstrates the new theological position of Saddleback. At the celebration, a document one year in the making was presented which encourages Christians and Muslims to appreciate the similarities of our faiths.

The document encouraged that our communities work together towards the common good and to combat bigotry in a 1-2-3 plan. The first step in the plan identifies the belief in one God.

This writer seems to under the impression that the King’s Way document 1) represents “the new theological position of Saddleback,” and 2) appears to imply this “one God” is the same God. So, we’re left again to wonder where Saddleback and Rick Warren really stand.

Is Saddleback interfaith pastor  Abraham Meulenberg telling these Muslims that Saddleback Church’s new theological position is that they’re all believing in same God? Or, is the ambiguous language used so that unsuspecting Muslims will infer that this is Saddleback’s View?

Christian Research Network contributor Erin Benziger brings out a couple of important questions in her Are We Witnessing a “King’s Way” Cover-up? She wonders:

A new theological position? For a Christian church? Perhaps the members of the ISCS misunderstood the intent of this entire endeavor. If so, one wonders why Saddleback did not seek to clarify such a misunderstanding sometime between December and today.  One also must surely wonder why the King’s Way excerpt that has emerged has been ignored by Warren and his team.

Finally, it cannot help but be questioned why it is that the ISCS has suddenly deleted this clear, boastful evidence of the December event and this “historic interfaith document.” In the interest of Christian ethic, we certainly hope that there is no “King’s Way Cover-up” underway.
(Online source)

Well, we do know one thing for sure. Saddleback’s famous pastor Rick Warren has very publicly taken to the social media insisting “the truth” get out. I certainly do hope we will hear the truth; and may Warren be held to his words here in Rick Warren on Muslims, Evangelism, and Missions over at his own Pastors.com website:

(Online source)

See also;

RICK WARREN AND TEACHINGS OF DEMONS

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

MARK DRISCOLL, ACTS 29 NETWORK, AND RICK WARREN

We watch as silly superstitions disguised as so-called Spiritual Formation slither deeper into the very heart of the mainstream evangelical community.

Now largely only pretending to be Protestant as so many bow before the Golden Calf of corrupt Counter Reformation Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) as perpetrated by Southern Baptist minister Dallas Wilard and his former pastor and close friend, Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster.

You’ll see a perfect example of this with Protholics like Rick Warren of the SBC flagship Saddleback Church as evidenced e.g. in James Robison And Rick Warren Working To Reverse The Protestant Reformation and even with Apprising Ministries Exclusive On Rick Warren, Jim Hinch, And Islam.

That latter piece basically came about because of a post by Ed Stetzer, the President of LifeWay Research—the publishing arm of the Southern Baptist Convention. Stetzer felt he need to come to Warren’s defense concerning controversy regarding a document called King’s Way.

You’re probably aware that the conflict began with Rick Warren builds bridge to Muslims where free lance reporter Jim Hinch told us:

The Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and one of America’s most influential Christian leaders, has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

The effort, informally dubbed King’s Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims… At [a] dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King’s Way as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.”

The men presented a document they co-authored outlining points of agreement between Islam and Christianity. The document affirms that Christians and Muslims believe in “one God” and share two central commandments: “love of God” and “love of neighbor.” The document also commits both faiths to three goals: Making friends with one another, building peace and working on shared social service projects. The document quotes side-by-side verses from the Bible and the Koran to illustrate its claims. (Online source)

Rick Warren would then say Hinch’s story contained factual errors; thereby impugning Hinch’s character as a reporter. Ed Stetzer  now enters this story with his post Rick Warren Interview on Muslims, Evangelism & Missions (Responding to Recent News Reports)  where he opines:

Once again, watchbloggers are accusing Rick Warren of heresy. Why? Because, Warren explains, a secular Orange County newspaper got something wrong about a religious issue. Some of the usual bloggers have done their usual job.

However, due to the nature of the story, some mainstream news organizations and bloggers, without the constant anti-Warren agenda, were asking questions and wondering what what was going on. I was. So, I emailed Rick and asked him.

Rick sent me this interview where he seeks to bring clarification. He gave me permission to share it here at the blog. I think it will be helpful. (Online source)

However, here’s a couple of things we need to get straight. My Christian Research Network editor Daniel Neades of Better Than Sacrifice immediately covered Rick Warren Categorically Denies OC Register Report. Stetzer neglected to mention this; and he also decided not to publish my comment at his blog.

This morning I made Ed Stetzer aware that there was more to this story, which I shared last night, and I left him the link to Apprising Ministries Exclusive On Rick Warren, Jim Hinch, And Islam. You see, yesterday I asked Jim Hinch about the King’s Way document, which he has. Hinch began with a recap of the situation:

Rick Warren initially posted a comment to the article claiming that the article contained “multiple errors.” That comment was later deleted, I presume by Warren. After seeing that comment I reached out to Warren’s director of communications.

On Monday, Feb. 27 a Saddleback representative called and told me that while the Register story was factually accurate, folks at Saddleback would prefer that the opening paragraph read “Muslims and Christians believe that God is one.”

Following a discussion with a Register editor Saddleback decided to withdraw its request for a clarification. At no time has anyone at Saddleback said to me or to anyone else at the Register that the story contains factual inaccuracies.

You should be able to see why online apologetics and discernment ministries work to expose the methodology of Rick Warren. What “multiple errors” is Warren talking about? He also kept insisting that no one contacted him. Hinch then sets the record straight:

Warren states in his white paper that “no one even talked to me about that article!” I made numerous attempts to contact Warren, both by phone and by e-mail, before the story was published.

I was eventually told by Warren’s director of communications that Warren was too busy with other projects to speak with me or to e-mail a response to the story’s main claims, which I had e-mailed to the communications director. Instead I was put in touch with Tom Holladay, an associate senior pastor at Saddleback.

I ran all of the story’s claims by Holladay and he affirmed all of them, including the language of the King’s Way document and the fact that King’s Way was an effort to build bridges of friendship and cooperation, not an attempt to evangelize.

During my conversation with Holladay I asked whether the King’s Way effort, including the December dinner and the theological document, was done with Rick Warren’s approval. “Of course it has his approval,” Holladay replied. It is neither fair nor accurate to claim that this story was published without attempting to solicit Rick Warren’s response.

UPDATE: RICK WARREN SAYS NO KING’S WAY DOCUMENT AND NO SADDLEBACK “STAFF” INVOLVED

Apprising Ministries has long been a leading critic of the semi-pelagian (at best) doctrine of Southern Baptist megachurch pastor Rick Warren.

In articles like Rick Warren And Teachings Of Demons I’ve also clearly documented his sinful ecumenicism as well.

Of course that’s merely one of the fruits festering within apostatizing evangelicalism because of its foolish fascination with corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism.

With this in mind, I previously told you that Christian Research Network contributor Christine Pack brought out in her piece Controversy Over An Article About Rick Warren’s Efforts to Bring Muslims, Christians Together:

According to our article posted just a few hours ago, Rick Warren, megachurch pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA, is currently working to build a “bridge” (through a document called “King’s Way”) between Christians and Muslims by claiming that the two faiths worship the same God. The “King’s Way” document, which is the foundation for these bridge building efforts, is not yet publicly available, but a December 2011 meeting at Saddleback Church has been documented here. From the article by Jim Hinch of the Orange County Register:

“The Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and one of America’s most influential Christian leaders, has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.” (Online source)

You might remember that Rick Warren then appeared in the comments section of Hinch’s report with a rather nebulous comment about apparent misinformation allegedly put out by Hinch. So in Rick Warren, Islam, And Jim Hinch I shared with you the result of my personal conversation with Hinch, as well as his subsequent clarification.

To God be the glory that online apologetics and discernment works He’s raised up were able to put enough pressure upon Rick Warren that Ed Stetzer of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Lifeway publishing arm would lament:

Once again, watchbloggers are accusing Rick Warren of heresy. Why? Because, Warren explains, a secular Orange County newspaper got something wrong about a religious issue. Some of the usual bloggers have done their usual job.

However, due to the nature of the story, some mainstream news organizations and bloggers, without the constant anti-Warren agenda, were asking questions and wondering what what was going on. I was. So, I emailed Rick and asked him.

Rick sent me this interview where he seeks to bring clarification. He gave me permission to share it here at the blog. I think it will be helpful. (Online source)

Since I am considered one of those “watchbloggers” this immediately caught my attention. Stetzer would go on to say, “I am sure those who quoted the OC Register will also quote this to clear up any confusion.” Indeed Daniel Neades of Better Than Sacrifice, editor of my CRN, did immediately cover this development.

Neades noted in his piece Rick Warren Categorically Denies OC Register Report:

In an ‘interview’ published by Ed Stetzer of LifeWay Research, Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church and one of America’s most prominent Christian leaders, has categorically denied an Orange County Register report that he had ‘embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.’ (Online source)

Well, in the interest of fairness I decided to email Jim Hinch today. Remember, he is a veteran freelance reporter; not some “angry watchblogger.” I asked Jim if there’s any way I could get a copy of that King’s Way piece at the source of this confusion. I explained that without seeing it there wasn’t much more I can say.

I then told him that my guess is the wording of it does imply what what he had stated. I told Hinch it was my opinion, based upon 25 years in the field of Comparative Religion, that likely it’s wording is consistent with the original In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful A Common Word between Us and You, which says:

It is part of the very foundational principles of both faiths: love of the One God, and love of the neighbour. These principles are found over and over again in the sacred texts of Islam and Christianity. The Unity of God, the necessity of love for Him, and the necessity of love of the neighbour is thus the common ground between Islam and Christianity. (Online source)

Now compare the Christian response to the above that Rick Warren actually signed. You’ll see it also, at least, implies that Islam is an Abrahamic faith believing in the same God:

A Common Word Between Us and You identifies some core common ground between Christianity and Islam which lies at the heart of our respective faiths as well as at the heart of the most ancient Abrahamic faith, Judaism…in responding to your letter, we ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world…

We applaud that A Common Word Between Us and You stresses so insistently the unique devotion to one God, indeed the love of God, as the primary duty of every believer… (Online source)

As I then told Jim Hinch in my email to him, sure, someone can hide in the weeds claiming all of this doesn’t exactly say that Muslims believe in the same God, but it’s my assertion this is the clear implication. I’ll also offer that if one doesn’t mean this then they’re actually being a bit disingenuous to followers of Islam.

The Lord be praised, Jim Hinch has given me permission to publish the following, which further explains his thinking in his report. It also includes a bit of the King’s Way document. I read it the same way as Jim Hinch:

1. The primary source for this story was a five-page document jointly drafted by Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California, a mosque in Los Angeles. The document was unveiled at a December, 2011 dinner at Saddleback Church attended by approximately 300 Saddleback members and members of Southern California’s Muslim community. At the dinner a Powerpoint presentation described the document, and the King’s Way outreach effort which inspired the document, as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.” The document, which was given to me by a source for this story on condition it not be published in its entirety, outlines several areas of theological agreement between Christians and Muslims and commits members of both faiths to three goals: becoming friends; making peace; and sharing “the blessings of God with others.” Here is how the document describes the points of theological agreement:

I. WHO: we believe in

ONE GOD:

1. God is one (Mark 12:29; Muhammed 47:19)

2. God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Al Shura 42:11)

3. God is different from the world (1 Timothy 6:16; An An’am 6:103)

4. God is Good

a. God loves (1 John 4:16; Al Buruj 85:14)

b. God is just (1 John 1:19, Romans 3:26; Hud 11:45)

c. God’s love encompasses God’s judgment (1 Peter 4:8; Al A’raf 7:156; Al Ghafir 40:7)

The Register story based the phrases “same God” and “one God” on the phrasing in this document, which states that Christians and Muslims believe in one God.

2. Rick Warren initially posted a comment to the article claiming that the article contained “multiple errors.” That comment was later deleted, I presume by Warren. After seeing that comment I reached out to Warren’s director of communications. On Monday, Feb. 27 a Saddleback representative called and told me that while the Register story was factually accurate, folks at Saddleback would prefer that the opening paragraph read “Muslims and Christians believe that God is one.” Following a discussion with a Register editor Saddleback decided to withdraw its request for a clarification. At no time has anyone at Saddleback said to me or to anyone else at the Register that the story contains factual inaccuracies.

3. Warren states in his white paper that “no one even talked to me about that article!” I made numerous attempts to contact Warren, both by phone and by e-mail, before the story was published. I was eventually told by Warren’s director of communications that Warren was too busy with other projects to speak with me or to e-mail a response to the story’s main claims, which I had e-mailed to the communications director. Instead I was put in touch with Tom Holladay, an associate senior pastor at Saddleback. I ran all of the story’s claims by Holladay and he affirmed all of them, including the language of the King’s Way document and the fact that King’s Way was an effort to build bridges of friendship and cooperation, not an attempt to evangelize. During my conversation with Holladay I asked whether the King’s Way effort, including the December dinner and the theological document, was done with Rick Warren’s approval. “Of course it has his approval,” Holladay replied. It is neither fair nor accurate to claim that this story was published without attempting to solicit Rick Warren’s response.

4. Warren claims in his white paper that it is “flat-out wrong” that either he or members of Saddleback have promised not to evangelize the Muslims they are working with in the King’s Way effort. As I stated above, that was not what I was told by Tom Holladay. Also, every one of the Muslim sources I talked to for this story emphasized that both sides promised not to evangelize one another. Indeed Muslims told me that the promise not to evangelize was one of the things that enabled them to overcome their wariness toward evangelicals and build bonds of friendship. Again, no source for this story, including at Saddleback, ever told me that the intent of the King’s Way effort was to evangelize Muslims.

This story, obviously, has generated a great deal of passionate response. I respect Rick Warren’s desire to make his views and intentions clear. However I do not believe it is fair to question the accuracy of the Register’s story or the way it was reported. I have had several conversations with people at Saddleback following the publication of the story, including with the church’s director of communications. Everyone I have talked to from the church has told me that the story is entirely factually accurate but they wish certain phrases had been worded differently. However, since those phrases stem directly from a printed document whose authenticity no one has questioned, everyone agrees that there is nothing in the story to correct.

See also:

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

MARK DRISCOLL, ACTS 29 NETWORK, AND RICK WARREN

JAMES ROBISON AND RICK WARREN WORKING TO REVERSE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION

By Christian Research Network contributor Christine Pack of Sola Sisters
This is a repost of an original article on Sola Sisters

In the article Rick Warren Builds Bridge to Muslims, published 2/23/12 in the Orange County Register and written by staff writer Jim Hinch, it was reported that Rick Warren of Saddleback Church was working on an interfaith document aimed at healing “divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.”

Understandably, this article went off like a bomb inside the theological community. Bloggers blogged, talk show hosts talked, and social media sites were abuzz with discussion. What did this mean? Was Rick Warren now embracing the heretical, but trendy, new movement known as Chrislam? Eight days later, Rick Warren finally addressed the issue by giving a very clear and unambiguous statement affirming his Trinitarian, his Christian beliefs, and stating unequivocally that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. (The entire article can be read here.)

The problem with Rick Warren’s supposed clarification is that if you hold his statement up against his life’s actions, they don’t seem to add up. Now that Rick Warren has come out with his statement, I think we must take the statement at face value, but I think we can certainly ask questions. In some ways, it’s almost like he’s gone under oath and given his testimony. But since he has, we can now present the following Exhibits:

 Exhibit A – Jim Hinch Did Attempt to Speak To Rick Warren 

Jim Hinch, the writer of the original Orange County article in question, despite what Rick Warren claims, DID try to speak directly with Rick Warren but was told he was unavailable for comment:

RICK WARREN: ”Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them … I do not believe them… I completely disagree with them … and no one even talked to me about that article!”

JIM HINCH: ”I talked to sources both at Saddleback and in the Muslim community and all of them described the mutual outreach efforts and the attempt to find points of theological common ground. While reporting the story I asked to speak to Rick Warren but was told he was too busy for an interview.”

In addition to this, Jim Hinch, the writer of the article that caused such a dust-up is just a regular guy: he’s not a theologian, and to the best of my understanding, he’s not even a Christian. and after having assessed the data in front of him and after reading the King’s Way document, came to the conclusion that it was an interfaith document. The question should not be, “Did Jim Hinch lie?” (because he didn’t) but rather, it should be this: Why wasn’t the Christian gospel message so profoundly clear in the King’s Way document that it was abundantly clear to the secular, onlooking world (like Jim Hinch) that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God?

 Exhibit B – Presidential Inauguration 

This exhibit includes the Presidential Inauguration, where Rick Warren gave a carefully worded interfaith prayer in which he gave one of the names of Jesus as “Issa.” This is NOT one of Jesus’ names. “Issa” is the Arabic name for the Jesus of the Qu’ran, and the Jesus in the Qu’ran is not the Jesus of the Bible, but “another Jesus” (2 Cor 11:4) who is not the Divine Son of God, nor the Savior who came to make atonement for sinners.

 Exhibit C – Rick Warren Says It’s His Desire To Work with Muslims, Jews…Not Evangelize Them 

Rick Warren’s has given on-the-record statements that he does not feel he needs to evangelize other faiths, but only wants to work together with them to better the community….

…..Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in California and also co-author of the King’s Way document crafted by Saddleback Church, said of the agreed upon parameters for the interfaith document: “We agreed we wouldn’t try to evangelize each other…….We’d witness to each other but it would be out of ‘Love Thy Neighbor,’ not focused on conversion.”

….In 2006, Rick Warren gave an interfaith talk at a Jewish temple, before which he told the organizer of the event (Rabbi Wolfson) that his interest was in “helping all houses of worship, not in converting Jews.”

 Additional Resources 

A Common Word Between Us and You (Interfaith document created by the Muslim community, aimed at uniting Christians-Muslims)

A Christian Response to A Common Word Between Us and You (Interfaith document created by the Christian community, signed by Rick Warren)

Controversy Over An Article About Rick Warren’s Efforts to Bring Muslims, Christians TogetherIslamic Center of Southern California Co-authors Historic Interfaith Document (“King’s Way”)

“Historic Interfaith Document” (King’s Way) was “One Year in the Making”

Critical Issues Commentary: A Biblical Look at Rick Warren’s Teaching

Rick Warren: Driven by Destiny?

Why is Rick Warren Quoting Universalist Henri Nouwen?

The original appears complete with a comments section for you to join the discussion right here.

See also:

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

MARK DRISCOLL, ACTS 29 NETWORK, AND RICK WARREN

JAMES ROBISON AND RICK WARREN WORKING TO REVERSE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION

When asked by [Christian Post] about the [Orange County] Register’s lead paragraph that states he “has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God,” Warren stated:
”First, as I’ve already said, Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don’t. Second, while we urge members to build friendships with Muslims and everyone in our community (“Love your neighbor as yourself”), our church has no partnership with any mosque. For example, I know that some of our members have led Bible study with Muslim friends, which I applaud. But I’ve never been to it, and it certainly isn’t any kind of partnership or merger. It’s crazy how a simple Bible study can be interpreted by some people as a plan for a new religion!”

The primary talking point of the controversy appears to be the question as whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

Warren’s answer: 
”Of course not. Christians have a view of God that is unique. We believe Jesus is God! We believe God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not three separate gods but one God. No other faith believes Jesus is God. My God is Jesus. The belief in God as a Trinity is the foundational difference between Christians and everyone else. There are 2.1 billion people who call themselves Christians… whether Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal, or Evangelical… and they all have the doctrine of the Trinity in common.” (Online source)

See also:

RICK WARREN, ISLAM, AND JIM HINCH

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

JAMES ROBISON AND RICK WARREN WORKING TO REVERSE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION

By Christian Research Network contributor Daniel Neades of Better Than Sacrifice
This is a repost of an original article on Christian Research Network

In an ‘interview’ published by Ed Stetzer of LifeWay Research, Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church and one of America’s most prominent Christian leaders, has categorically denied an Orange County Register report that he had ‘embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.’

The OC Register further reported Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, as saying ‘We agreed we wouldn’t try to evangelize each other. We’d witness to each other but it would be out of “Love Thy Neighbor”, not focused on conversion.’

The OC Register endeavoured to speak to Rick Warren about the claims, but said that ‘Saddleback representatives declined to make Warren available for comment.’

Responding more than a week after the OC Register first published its story on 23 February, Rick Warren stated:

‘All three of those statements are flat out wrong. Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them … I do not believe them… I completely disagree with them … and no one even talked to me about that article! So let me address each one individually: First, as I’ve already said, Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don’t. Our God is Jesus, not Allah. Colossians 2:9 “For in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” Second, while we urge our members to build friendships with everyone in our community, including Muslims and other faiths, (“Love your neighbor as yourself”), our church has never had any partnership with a mosque. Friendship and partnership are two very different levels of commitment. Some of our members have hosted a Bible study with Muslim friends, which I applaud, but I’ve never been to it, and a Bible study certainly isn’t any kind of partnership or merger! It’s just crazy that a simple Bible Study where people explore Scripture with non-Christians would be reported as a partnership and others would interpret that as a plan for a new compromised religion. Just crazy! Third, as both an Evangelical and as an evangelist, anyone who knows me and my 40 year track record of ministry that I would never agree to “not evangelizing” anyone! I am commanded by my Savior to share the Good News with all people everywhere, all the time, in every way possible! Anyone who’s heard me teach knows that my heart beats for bringing others to Jesus. SOURCE

The full statement by Rick Warren is available on the LifeWay Research Blog.

See also:

RICK WARREN, ISLAM, AND JIM HINCH

JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM

JAMES ROBISON AND RICK WARREN WORKING TO REVERSE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION