Unfortunately for James MacDonald et al the facts simply don’t line up with his assertion that T.D. Jakes is no longer a WF prosperity preacher. For example there’s Megachurch Pastors Joel Osteen And T.D. Jakes Unite And Why You Should Care and T.D. Jakes May 2012 Leadership Conference To Feature Joel Osteen.

Then just a few weeks ago T.D. Jakes Speaker This Month For Paula White’s A God Encounter. Interestingly enough that appearance for his spiritual daughter[1] came just 6 days after T.D. Jakes was featured speaker for TBN’s March 8 edition of Spring Praise-A-Thon 2012 as you’ll see in the first video clip below.

Matt and Laurie Crouch were hosts and notice at 2:49 Laurie says she’s going to give whatever amount of money Jakes tells her to, i.e. the classic WF sow a seed gift [money] and thereby obligate God to bless you with a bigger return or some miraculous intervention you may require of Him:

This next clip begins after Matt Crouch introduces the visiting pastors and pastrixes, which is how each program begins. After moving to the couch Crouch introduces T.D. Jakes as the storyteller he is. He then asks Jakes to tell us the story of how his ministry started. You’ll see it was Paul Crouch who first put Jakes on television:

Jakes goes on to say how nervous he was to come through the gates of TBN as if he was in awe to be appearing on the Praise the Lord program. Jakes next informs us that at the time Crouch would discover him he was preaching for uninversalist Carlton Pearson at one of his Azusa conferences held at Oral Roberts University.

Jakes explains that the message Paul Crouch would hear was actually edited from when he spoke at Pearson’s church prior to his speaking at Oral Roberts University. Jakes said it was “about a seven minute clip” and aired on Pearson’s television program at the time Paul Crouch was working on his book I Had No Father But God.

He tells Matt Crouch “your dad didn’t know me from Adam” when he saw him on Pearson’s television program. Jakes discusses how his unorthodox take on John 20:24-28 so touched Paul Crouch and then lauds himself for his own integrity. Next Jakes tells us his appearance would quickly lead to him having his own show on TBN.

Jakes goes on to walk us through the whole sequence of events leading up to Crouch contacting him, which Jakes attributes to an orchestrating of his steps by God. This becomes clear at 4:04 when Jakes says one of the reasons we need “Christian television,” i.e. TBN is:

because we’ve got to have people who are sensitive enough to the Holy Spirit that when the Holy Spirit says [to] do something, you don’t necessarily pick somebody by the size name they have, or how many degrees they have (audience applauding)… God can reach way down into the clay hills of West Virginia, in a rural area (speaking of himself)…

Jakes had mentioned how quickly God allegedly grew his ministry, which now reaches “all around the world.” Then Word Faith mogul T.D. Jakes pays homage to heretical spiritual huckster Paul Crouch saying it came about “all through a moment where Paul Crouch said, ‘yes,’ to an unction of the Holy Spirit” in this clip below:

We’re supposed to believe that the Lord raised up and blessed these spiritual snake oil salesmen; I think not.

________________________________________________________________________________

End notes:

[1] see ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE.

See also:

T.D. JAKES PROSPERITY GOSPEL; SOW A SEED, GOD WILL BLESS YOU

T.D. JAKES PREACHING HERETICAL WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION

ELEPHANT ROOM 2′S T.D. JAKES’ SPIRITUAL DAUGHTER PAULA WHITE IN THE NEWS

Apprising Ministries has been covering the slowly growing fallout in the aftermath of the ER2 since its session on January 25th of this year.

Frankly, it seems pretty clear to me ER2 will prove to be a watershed event because it detonated as a bomb within the walls of contemporary evangelicalism.

Sadly, we may not yet even realize how big this story is going to get. It’s my opinion the division ER2’s going to cause is only barely beginning.

An example would be ER2′s main claim to fame which was, in my opinion, the pass given to Word Faith prosperity preacher and reputed modalist T.D. Jakes. In Elephant Room 2′S T.D. Jakes’ Spiritual Daughter Paula White In The News I reminded you that later James MacDonald would go on the offensive.

In his appearance on the Chris Fabry Live program MacDonald would tell us that in their private dialogues Jakes does not accept the label of a Word Faith prosperity.preacher. As I saw it, the clear implication was that—in addition to allegedly leaving modalism—T.D. Jakes has also moved away from WF prosperity preaching.

Really; then how do we explain that just last month Jakes was, same as he does every year, still shilling for Trinity Broadcasting Network—the notorious Word Faith haven for heretics—during their Spring Fleece-a-thon:

There’s Jakes on the 6th begging bucks of support for apostates (at best) like Paul and Jan Crouch; and clearly associating himself with other Word Faith royalty like Benny Hinn, Juanita Bynum and Mark Chironna. Then on the 8th, leaving aside the SBC’s David Jeremiah, there’s Jakes with B-list WF preachers like Clarence McClendon.

No, if it’s all the same to you James MacDonald, I think I’ll go with Jesus on this one:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15-16)

See also:

T.D. JAKES PROSPERITY GOSPEL; SOW A SEED, GOD WILL BLESS YOU

T.D. JAKES MAY 2012 LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE TO FEATURE JOEL OSTEEN

T.D. JAKES PREACHING HERETICAL WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION

I told you in There’s More To The Resignation Of James MacDonald From Gospel Coalition that MacDonald would resign from TGC because he didn’t want to “pull the plug” on T.D. Jakes coming to the ER2.

Then on Wednesday of this week we suddenly saw Mark Driscoll Resigns From The Gospel Coalition right on the heels of Matt Chandler To Be New President OfFActs 29 Network as Driscoll decided to step down. Sources within Acts 29 tell me these are related, at least in part, to ER2.

Fallout from ER2 will likely continue to be seen within the contemporary evangelicalism this year because the main claim to fame for this conference was, in my opinion, the pass given to Word Faith mogul T.D. Jakes. As I see it, led by Mark Driscoll, Jakes was essentially allowed to say, “I’m a trinitarian-modalist.” Jakes’ obvious Word Faith prosperity teachings were never even mentioned, let alone addressed.

The net result is ER2 was successful in mainstreaming T.D. Jakes; and then James MacDonald would go on the offensive on the Chris Fabry Live (CFL) program to imply that in their private dialogues Jakes does not accept the label of a Word Faith prosperity preacher. However from years of involvement with, and study of, the WF movement I can tell you that no WF preacher wants to be branded with that particular label.

Unfortunately for James MacDonald et al the facts simply don’t line up with his assertion that T.D. Jakes is not a WF prosperity preacher. For example there’s Megachurch Pastors Joel Osteen And T.D. Jakes Unite And Why You Should Care and T.D. Jakes May 2012 Leadership Conference To Feature Joel Osteen. Then just a couple of weeks ago T.D. Jakes Speaker This Month For Paula White’s A God Encounter.

While Osteen sugarcoats his Word Faith prosperity preaching by mixing in self-help jargon ala Robert Schueller, there is no doubt that Pastrix Paula White is basically a female version of T.D. Jakes. If you didn’t know, there’s good reason for this as White often speaks of Jakes as her “spiritual father,” which you can hear for yourself in Elephant In The Room: T.D. Jakes And Paula White. To point this out is not merely guilt by association.

To look at this in a legal sense, it goes to the credibility of T.D. Jakes. It was James MacDonald who called Jakes to the witness stand in ER2 and he’s attempted to defend his brother Jakes. We then have every right to cross examine the record of T.D. Jakes who stated on the record that he holds an orthodox view of the Holy Trinity and, according to his spiritual defense attorney, now apparently claims not to be Word Faith.

Since Paula White claims Jakes was her mentor, which he also acknowledges, then we are within our right to examine her teachings and lifestyle because they also reflect upon her spiritual father T.D. Jakes. In closing this, for now, I point you to an Orlando Sentinel piece from January of this year called New Destiny’s Paula White preaches from life of ups, downs. Jeff Kunerth begins:

In her first sermon as the new pastor of New Destiny Christian Center, Paula White described herself as a “messed up Mississippi girl” who was picked on as a child. But don’t let this blond hair fool you, she told the congregation, this girl knows how to fight.

“I came out of my momma’s womb fighting,” she said. “That’s why I will go to war. I will fight.” (Online source)

Obviously, by claiming to be a pastor White is already in violation of God’s Word (cf. 1 Timothy 2:12). You might be saying, “Wait a minute she’s supposed to be the senior pastor of Without Walls Church.” That’s right, she is; and she found a way to become pastrix of New Destiny Christian Center (NDCC) as well. You might recall in August of last year I told you that Florida Megachurch Pastor Zachery Tims Found Dead, NDCC was his church.

Well, pastrix Paula White claims that she was Tims’ spiritual mentor. For more on the controversy surrounding just how White came to be appointed pastor at NDCC I refer you to Paula White Officially Appointed Senior Pastor of Zachery Tims’ Fla. Church. Right now we return to our look at the teachings of pastrix White as Orlando Sentinel reporter Jeff Kunerth continues:

White often refers to her past personal hardships as examples of how faith and determination have elevated her into the pulpit. Her rags-to-riches travails inspire those in the congregation who have experienced difficulties in their lives.

“Part of her appeal is the success theology she preaches,” said Sheila Strobel Smith, an expert on leadership transition in megachurches like Apopka’s New Destiny. “For people feeling down and out, they can see she has picked herself up and made a success of herself. And her life continues to play that out.” (Online source)

As you can see, just as her spiritual father T.D. Jakes, White’s message is herself; typical of Word Faith prosperity preachers. As with other WF snake oil salesmen Kunerth also tells us that Without Walls Church, which White co-founded with her then husband Randy White:

became the focus of a congressional investigation into several high-profile preachers suspected of living lavish lifestyles at the expense of their congregations. (Online source)

Kunerth also tells us, as it concerns her taking over NDCC, that White:

I told you previously in Voddie Baucham, Who Turned Down An ER2 Invite, Speaks Out On The Elephant In The Room that it seems pretty clear to me ER2 will prove to be a watershed event.

We may not yet even realize how big this story is going to get. It’s my opinion the division ER2’s going to cause is only barely beginning.

For example, yesterday Christian Research Network Associate Editor Erin Benziger of Do Not Be Surprised… brought to our attention Third Church Leaves Harvest Bible Fellowship, She explains that Harvest Bible Chapel, New Lenox has left HBC:

HBC New Lenox has offered the following reasons for their withdrawal from Harvest Bible Fellowship.

Harvest Bible Chapel Ministry new distinctives that we oppose-

1. A Growing Personality/Celebrity Pastor Centered Ministry

2. Pastor James MacDonald’s associations with “pastors” who hold to errant theologies

3. Lack of Discernment in the Elephant Room Discussions

Their website provides much additional detail and information, and the reader is encouraged to visit there to read further. (Online source)

The most notorious of those “pastors” would be Word Faith mogul T.D. Jakes, who in my opinion, was given a real pass. His obvious Word Faith teachings and connections were never even mentioned. Then in addition Jakes was also allowed to essentially say, “I’m a trinitarian who expresses it as a modalist.”

I bring this up because not long after ER2 James MacDonald, curator of the Elephant Room—and who heads up the Harvest Bible Chapel church planting group—went on a mini-offensive defending his, at best, poor decision to bring T.D. Jakes into ER2.

Remember, as I showed you in There’s More To The Resignation Of James MacDonald From Gospel Coalition, MacDonald chose to regisn from TGC rather then dis-invite Jakes to his ER2. MacDonald  also informed us that he’d been having private dialogue with Jakes.

The idea conveyed by James MacDonald was that T.D.Jakes was no longer a modalist. Well, I remain unconvinced that Jakes has repudiated modalism, which he would have to do publicly before he could be considered orthodox in the all important area of the nature of God.

Keep this in mind now as I remind you that on the aforementioned Chris Fabry Live (CFL) program MacDonald implied that Jakes does not accept the label of a Word Faith prosperity preacher. However, I can tell you that no WF preacher wants to be branded with that particular label.

CRN’s Erin Benziger also informed us that during MacDonald’s appearance on CFL:

Fabry brought up the oft-neglected (by MacDonald, anyway) elephant of T.D. Jakes’ prosperity gospel. In this part of the discussion, James MacDonald indicated that a private conversation had taken place (among whom, we do not know, though it is obvious that it was at least allegedly between MacDonald and Jakes).

During this conversation, says MacDonald, T.D. Jakes expressed that he would “not currently accept the designation of prosperity or Word of Faith as an accurate description of what he believes. [...] As of two weeks ago [Jakes] would not accept these terms in a private conversation as an accurate description of what he believes.” MacDonald continued and stated that Jakes’ “ministry will have to bear that out.”

Indeed it will. After all, the prosperity preaching gig is quite lucrative and it is undoubtedly not abandoned lightly. (Online source)

Unfortunately, as you’ll be able to see in T.D. Jakes Prosperity Gospel; Sow A Seed, God Will Bless You, recent evidence simply doesn’t bear this out. Nor does the fact that Jakes’ upcoming “leadership” conference in May is featuring his new friend and fellow WF prosperity preacher Joel Osteen.

Take a look for yourself in T.D. Jakes May 2012 Leadership Conference To Feature Joel Osteen. In closing this, for now, I’ll present yet another piece of evidence refuting James MacDonald and any supposed private claim by T.D. Jakes, that implicitly, he’s not involved with WF prosperity preaching.

In my email today was the announcement of A God Encounter Conference put on by the “ministry” of nefarious Word Faith pastrix Paul White. Notice that it features Jakes:

(Online source)

We’re not surprised at all when Paula White makes sure we’re told again that T.D. Jakes is her spiritual father:

(Online source)

If you haven’t seen it, the clip below is from TBN’s Praise the Lord program 9/1/11. Listen for yourself as Jakes introduces WF pastrix Paula White as “this tremendous woman of God.” You’ll hear from her very own mouth as White says to Jakes and his wife:

It’s my honor… Well, first Iwant to say what an honor it is to be with the two of you. In life I believe that, um, Henry Drummond said that we are all mosaics of the men in our life—the people in our lives—and that we become a part of those we interact with.

A large part of who I am—the development, the cultivation—the staying on a track, the maturing [in my life] is, is, due to the people that I have the privilege to sit with [here]—that I have been able to call my spiritual father and mother for almost 23 years.

I adore, admire, love, and respect [you]…

It’s important to stop and think this through. Pastrix Paula White, already in rebellion against God’s Word on this point alone, has just told us that “who I am” would be “due to” T.D, Jakes being her “spiritual father.” Those aren’t my words, it’s clearly her own testistimony.

To anyone without an elephant ax to grind, the fact is, Jakes mentored White; as such, her own Word Faith prosperity preaching extends from him. I was once in the WF and have still followed its spread for years. Nowhere will you find T.D. Jakes encouraging Paula White to leave WF.

No rather, what you will hear is Jakes introducing his spiritual daughter Paula White as a tremendous woman of God whom he also calls “pastor extraordinaire”:

The other thing I’m excited about tonight and really, really, really, glad to have is this tremendous woman of God. Who I feel silly trying to introduce her because everybody in the world knows her.

If you don’t know this woman, you don’t have a TV. You don’t have a cell phone, you don’t have a computer, you haven’t been anywhere. She is a pastor extraordinaire, she is a life coach, she is an author in her own rights.

She is a woman of integrity that God is using in a very, very, unique way; not only in Church Without Walls there in Tampa, Florida, but throughout America, and around the world.

Would you welcome, Dr. Paula White. (applause) We are glad to have you. We love you. We appreciate you.

T.D. Jakes is no evangelical; the clear evidence presented here convicts him as a Word Faith prosperity preacher.

See also:

EMERGING ECUMENICAL EVANGELEPHANTS AND THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT

T.D. JAKES PREACHING HERETICAL WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION

PASTRIX PAULA WHITE AND SCROLL-WRAPPING “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

Apprising Ministries continues with coverage of the aftermath of James MacDonald’s ecumenical ER2. You can be sure that it’s silent shockwaves have done more damage than we yet see.

Earlier AM Correspondent Erin Benziger informed us of J MacD’s new offensive in what may be becoming an obsession for him, the mainstreaming of Word Faith prosperity preacher T.D. Jakes.

It seems that now MacDonald’s attempting to make it appear as if, in private ongoing discussion he’s having with Jakes, that the long-time WF preacher is moving away from this perverted position.

As Benziger brings out in her well-researched piece Cleaning Up After the Elephants? MacDonald Takes to the Airwaves, while MacDonald was on Chris Fabry Live the other day:

Fabry brought up the oft-neglected (by MacDonald, anyway) elephant of T.D. Jakes’ prosperity gospel. In this part of the discussion, James MacDonald indicated that a private conversation had taken place (among whom, we do not know, though it is obvious that it was at least allegedly between MacDonald and Jakes).

During this conversation, says MacDonald, T.D. Jakes expressed that he would “not currently accept the designation of prosperity or Word of Faith as an accurate description of what he believes. [...] As of two weeks ago [Jakes] would not accept these terms in a private conversation as an accurate description of what he believes.” (Online source)

However, that’s a red herring; from years of personal dealings with them, I can tell you that WF properity preachers don’t consider themselves such anyway. The public evidence, as you see e.g. below and in T.D. Jakes Preaching Heretical Word Faith Positive Confession, doesn’t reveal any change at all.

Not to mention T.D. Jakes May 2012 Leadership Conference To Feature Joel Osteen; there’s also T.D. Jakes Has Ties To “Rabbi” Ralph Messer, the infamous scroll-wrapping king coronating WF prosperity preacher. Then we have Elephant In The Room: T.D. Jakes And Paula White as well. This is the record.

In Pastrix Paula White, T.D. Jakes, & The Black Convertable Bentley you’ll also see WF superstar pastrix Paula White, who’s in open rebellion against the Word of God, call Jakes her “spiritual father.” Fact is, T.D. Jakes is her mentor and she learned from him things like seed-sowing prosperity mythology.

As I begin to close this, for now, I’ll give you a couple of examples of T.D. Jakes with his WF mythology. In the first clip below you hear Jakes with the classic WF misunderstanding of Matthew , in that if we believe something together God is then duly bound to answer that prayer of faith:

And as we believe together, I need you to help this ministry continue to help change the world with the love of Jesus Christ. This work must continue.

Very pious; but it isn’t the mission of the Church to change the world, we are to bring the Gospel to those who are lost and to make disciples of Jesus Christ. And who says the work of T.D. Jakes “must continue?” Looks to me like Jakes does. I can tell you that the work of T.D. Jakes is truly sowing division.

Next the announcer sets up the WF fable that goes, if you sow a seed—means give money to—into a given WF ministry then God will “bless you,” i.e. prosper you financially. Of course in Word Faith mythology, the bigger the seed, the bigger the financial windfall; this is what Jakes means when he says:

And God will bless you back.

The following aired Jaunary 14, 2012, a couple of weeks before T.D. Jakes would be in Elephant Room 2. How what you’re about to witness can be considered “humble” is beyond me. To my eye it’s over the top grandstanding and a clear cut example of:

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

The Word Faith mythology you’ll see spewed by Jakes sure scratches the ears of those hearers, but it has no place in Christian theology. T.D. Jakes certainly is a master showman and very adept at using group psychology; however, we’re talking about church, not what appears as motivation in a self-help seminar.

Jakes begins this clip using narcigesis and allegorizing the younger son in The Parable of the Prodigal Son as being “in the hogpen of life.” With the emphasis clearly on us as human beings to come to ourselves and to get our mind’s right at 1:07 in Jakes shifts into high gear WF prosperity preaching mode.

Through years of monitoring TBN, at the beginning of each new year I’ve heard WF preachers promise what Jakes does beginning at 1:42:

Somebody, I can tell you right now that this is gonna be an amazing year for you! Cuz you already got your mind—you came out head first! You got a new thought, and a new plan, and a new vision, and a new attitude!

But we already got that same advice years ago in a catchy dance tune from soul singer Patti LaBelle:

I’m feelin’ good from my head to my shoes; Know where I’m goin’ and I know what to do,
I tidied up my point of view. I got a new attitude!

By using vague language like astrologers and psychics do, every year these WF preachers promise the faithful this is their year as does Jakes at 2:24:

Look at you neighbor and say, “I think this is gon’ be an amazing year (audience does so)—for me.”

For you see, for some it will be a good year; and if it doesn’t turn out that way for you, well, Jakes didn’t specify who would have the amazing year. Finally, during what he refers to as “a brain dump” at 2:51 T.D. Jakes moves right into classic Word Faith positive confession.

If you don’t know, this is the warped belief that our words have creative power because God spoke the universe into existence. This false teaching holds that He made up speaking beings with the ability, with His help of course, to decree and declare what we want to see happen.

Jakes tells us there are times he does this brain dump because he has to speak and declare the stuff in his head “because I gotta get it out of me” so it can come into existence. Then he says:

I want all of you that have a vision in your head, of where you wanna go this year—touch somebody and just start speakin’ stuff—just brain dump on ‘em! “I’m, I’m, gonna get out of debt this year.” “This is my year to get my family together.”

“This is my year to ge”—brain dump; c’mon! Get it out! Get it out! Get it out! Get it out! Get it out! Get it out! Get it out! (audience doing so with applause) Speak it! Speak it! Speak it! Speak it! Speak it! Speak it! Speak it! Declare it! Get it out!

James MacDonald would have us believe T.D. Jakes will repudiate modalism; that’s a majority of his base. And we’re now supposed to believe that Jakes will give up the rest of his Word faith base as well? I say, the real question people should be asking is: Why does MacDonald want us to believe this?

No, T.D. Jakes hasn’t changed; his show is what it is. And in fact, Jakes’ message sounds an awful lot like this one below by arch Word Faith heretic Kenneth Copeland from last year:

See also:

T.D. JAKES PREACHING HERETICAL WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION

T.D. JAKES HAS TIES TO “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

T.D. JAKES’ SPIRITUAL DAUGHTER PAULA WHITE TEACHING WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION 6-26-2011

See also:

T.D. JAKES HAS TIES TO “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

T.D. JAKES’ SPIRITUAL DAUGHTER PAULA WHITE TEACHING WORD FAITH POSITIVE CONFESSION 6-26-2011

By Tom Chantry, pastor of Christ Reformed Baptist Church, used with permission.
This is a repost of an original article on CRBC Pastoral blog

So.

A few weeks ago there was a conference. Way back when the participants were announced, concerns were voiced about one of them being a modalistic heretic and word-of-faith shill. Those who expressed this concern were dismissed as haters who never want to listen to a man before they decide what he believes. They were told that it was wrong to oppose his being called a “brother” because, after all, he’s an American. Nevertheless, they insisted that since everyone knows what “brother” means in a Christian context this was still something of a problem. The purpose statement was adjusted accordingly; the invitation list was not.

The conference went on as scheduled. Twenty-six minutes were set aside to discuss the Trinity, which is twenty-six more than were reserved to address the prosperity gospel. Most of those minutes were spent mocking the very idea of theological clarity. The heretic answered “yes” to a list of easy questions – all the while reserving the right to clarify his answers with the old heretical terminology – and then his two purportedly orthodox questioners declared his answers sufficient and proceeded to explain that what the church needs now is love sweet love.

As bad as the conference was, it proved tame in comparison to the defense offered after the fact. When Christendom failed to confirm the proclamation of orthodoxy which had been made, the host of the conference, together with a few of his friends, said: Hey, you’re all racists – except those of you who happen to be black, you’re sell-outs.

While you let that sink in, contemplate this: we’re the haters!

Are you stunned? Taken by surprise? Are you left breathlessly asking, “Wh…wha…what just happened?” How could men whom we thought were trustworthy and doctrinally sound have perpetrated such a crime upon the church? How did it ever come to this? Why would they choose this particularly destructive course of action? I realize that as soon as that last question is asked, some will say that we are wrong to judge motives. This would be true if we were guessing, but in this case no guesswork is required. We’ll just stick to the documented evidence.

In order to explain this sad, ugly train-wreck, let me take you back to the beginning and ask – again – a question which has thus far been ignored. When my attention was first directed to the Elephant Room, I noticed an odd detail in the Purpose Statement – and yes, this is one of the bits that never got edited out. The curious words were, “Fidelity and fruitfulness, both matter.”

Now as soon as I saw that I began to wonder about it. It’s a catchy, alliterative statement, but it seems to suggest that fidelity and fruitfulness don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. If you aren’t careful, your pursuit of the one might drive out the other. In other words this is a matter of balance: don’t love fidelity too much, lest you lose fruitfulness, and vice versa. Now in order for that to be true, either “fruitfulness” or “fidelity” must be defined in some extra-biblical way. Biblical fruit always results from biblical fidelity. Any sort of fruit which even could be in opposition to true fidelity is not real fruit.

I went so far as to ask James MacDonald what “fruitfulness” means in an Open Letter. I wrote:

The Elephant Room Purpose Statement speaks of fidelity and fruitfulness; do you understand “fruitfulness” to be something judged by the size of a congregation, or does that concept mean more? Are fidelity and fruitfulness opposing poles between which we must find “a new center,” or is fruitfulness defined and determined by fidelity?

To be fair, that question appeared in a longer post calling into question the youth ministry at Harvest Bible Chapel, a ministry which I know (I’m going to use the word biblically now) by its fruit. What happened next was that dozens of employees of Harvest and its satellites created blogger profiles and swamped the comment thread with assertions that I was not telling the truth. (So no, I wasn’t surprised when Ken Silva revealed that HBC sends out talking-points memos!) In the midst of the ensuing firestorm, the question was never answered. What exactly are the parameters of “fruitfulness”?

In the absence of any attempt to define terms, I was left to speculate that “fruitful” was being used to describe anyone with an astonishingly huge church. This conclusion was not reached in a vacuum; the guest-list at the Elephant Room II seemed to bear it out. “Fruit” appeared to mean “followers.” If you are a massive, multi-site ministerial mogul, you’re quite “fruitful.”

Now that the conference has played out we may ask two questions.

First, was this understanding of what James MacDonald means by “fruitful” born out in the Elephant Room? And second, how far does this misconception go toward explaining the entire debacle? The transcript of the event supplies us with the answers to both questions.

Let’s begin here:

Driscoll: [to Jakes] I want to say a couple of things. Thank you for joining us. You don’t have to be there. You were on the cover of Time magazine. You have options of where you go.

MacDonald: This isn’t your biggest gig ever?

Driscoll: It takes a lot of courage and humility to put yourself in an unscripted situation and to be outside of your normal crowd. And the fact you showed up to dinner last night, I was shocked. I was like, “T.D. Jakes is coming for dinner?” I loved you. I enjoyed you. I really appreciated hearing the story of your context, your family. And I walked away going, “I appreciate meeting and knowing and enjoying that man.” Thank you for being gracious; thank you for being courageous; thank you for being humble. [emphasis added]

Now the end of that may have been laying it on a bit thick, but to some degree I understand what Driscoll and MacDonald were saying. Jakes didn’t have to come. However, in light of what MacDonald saidlater in the day – words that are suggestive, at least, of the possibility that his primary means of testing orthodoxy is to hang out with big-name preachers and see whether he enjoys their company – given that, it was a little disconcerting all the same. But there was more:

MacDonald: Just, that was crazy! I’ve just got to say, I am so weary of people thinking they know – they don’t know! I think you honor us and you humble us, a man of your stature and commitment to the gospel and fruitfulness would come and sit with us in this room, let you and me ask him what he believes? Like he’s getting baptized or something? We got a one-A battery [indicates self], a two-A battery [indicates Driscoll] and a whole…

Driscoll: A nuclear power plant?

MacDonald: Thank you. I just want to say this, I think you’ve honored us, and you’ve shown incredible humility, and I want to be in the world where I believe that Jesus Christ stands. [emphasis added]

This is the money quote. Much attention has been paid to it, and for good reason. MacDonald’s enthusiasm here follows Jakes assertion of anemic, minimalist theological bullet-points which in no way revised his previous statements. What interests me, though, is the reason why MacDonald is so excited.

He mentions three things about Jakes here. First, his “stature.” That’s right, Jakes was on the cover of Time, and MacDonald is thrilled to have him there – as though somehow his stature in the eyes of the world renders him exempt from theological questioning. Second, his “commitment to the gospel.” This is an intriguing category to bring up, given that absolutely no attention was paid to the preaching of T.D. Jakes during the Elephant Room. One wonders exactly how Jakes’ pleas for seed offerings demonstrate “commitment to the gospel.” But then, finally, MacDonald returns to one of his favorite words: “fruitfulness.”

The meaning of this is at last fleshed out for us. When it comes to fruitfulness, Macdonald and Driscoll are to Jakes as a couple of small batteries are to a nuclear power plant. I think I’m on solid ground when I speculate that MacDonald isn’t presuming to talk about fruits of holiness or fruits of repentance here. There are only two things he can reasonably be assumed to mean: personal income or size of ministry – and we should charitably assume he means the latter. In fact, his summation of this session demonstrates exactly that:

I’d just like to reiterate the theme that you’ve talked about, the theme that you’ve talked about, and here’s a couple of things. 6000 churches in North America close their doors every year. 3500 Americans leave the church every day. I don’t mean leave the church to go across town to the other church. I mean, “I’m done with this.” Alright? Less than 20% of Americans attend church regularly. Only 15% of churches in the US are growing numerically. Only 15%, and only 2% of those are growing by conversion. We have a massive problem. The church of Jesus Christ in North America is hemorrhaging. It is in a freefall. We will be – and some of these successful churches can cause us to be confused about the true state of things. Steven Furtick’s baptizing a lot of people; that’s not going on in a lot of places. The church is hemorrhaging massively; it’s in a freefall. We need to wake up and figure out that the constant negative, destructive rhetoric is hurting the church; it’s not helping it. [emphasis added]

So there you have it. Everyone needs to shut up about needless stuff like doctrinal precision because the church is shrinking. Thank goodness for fruitful guys like Steven Furtick! It’s all about the numbers. Only those with massive ministries can possibly be big enough and fruitful enough to admonish the likes of MacDonald and his co-host, Mark Driscoll. Think I’m being unfair? Consider what Driscoll saidhe learned from the Elephant Room:

I did not grow up in an evangelical church. I was saved at 19 and planted a church at 25, which was too early, as I was not ready. The church I pastor is the only church of which I’ve ever been a member. Mars Hill has grown by 5,000 in a recent two-week time period, and we are now 15,000 people a week!

I say that not to brag, but to show how wonderfully complex it is to try and steward so much of God’s grace and so many people. Nothing changes until the leader changes, and I have a lot to learn. While I can and do learn a lot theologically from my tribe, the truth is there are not many evangelistically fruitful churches in my tribe and there are not any churches larger than ours I can learn from. So, I have to go outside of my theological tribe to learn certain things.

Go away, little people. You’re not fruitful enough to tell me about certain things.

Astounding, isn’t it? But then, even more than MacDonald, Driscoll is not known for his reserve. If he thinks something absolutely outrageous, he’ll eventually come right out and say it.

So now we understand “fruitful” – it means you win lots of converts. Two quick observations are in order if we would evaluate this biblically. First, you can search high and low for this usage of “fruit” in Scripture. The Bible talks about the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of righteousness, and fruit in keeping with repentance, but never about the fruit of enormous ecclesiastical empires.

Second, the Bible expressly warns us against assuming that large numbers are indicative of true fruitfulness. In the Parable of the Sower Jesus warned that only some apparent converts will ever produce fruit – many will fall away at the first trial while others will be choked by worldliness. No sooner had He explained this parable than He told the Parable of the Weeds, in which we learn that genuine fruitful Christians are not always easily distinguishable from false, hypocritical children of the world.

It would seem, then, that Scripture warns us to have a sober caution about large numbers. This is a warning which Driscoll and MacDonald simply ignore. MacDonald speaks of Jakes’ “commitment to the gospel” without inquiring at all into what the man actually preaches. Such questions seem to be immaterial; apparently you just don’t ask how “a nuclear power plant” produces all that energy.

The conclusion is clear: whatever MacDonald once was, however Driscoll presents himself – these men have become obsessed with large numbers. Having enormous congregations themselves, they will not admit any other criteria for the evaluation of ministries. They are not willing to listen to the reproof and admonition of anyone with a smaller ministry. They are willing to embrace a rank heretic and snake-oil salesmen and to cover his doctrinal nakedness with the cloak of evangelical respectability, provided only that they get to sit on stage with someone – anyone, it would appear – who has a larger church than their own.

So, what happened? Simply put: this elephant died from an acute case of idolatry – specifically the very modern form of idolatry which worships crowds, energy, and supposed influence. Its rotting carcass is a cautionary tale to us all: be careful not to love success more than truth.

That misplaced love is not only unwise; it runs headlong against all of Scripture’s warnings. It is not only uncharitable; it demonstrates a heartless disregard for the confused souls who have been misled by false teaching. It is not only distressing; it is disqualifying. These men should no longer be considered faithful ministers of the gospel. They simply cannot be trusted.

The original appears complete with a comments section for you to join the discussion right here.

See also:

CLEANING UP AFTER THE ELEPHANTS? JAMES MACDONALD TAKES TO THE AIRWAVES

T.D. JAKES HAS TIES TO “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

PAULA WHITE LESS THAN TRUTHFUL REGARDING “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

See also:

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

PAULA WHITE LESS THAN TRUTHFUL REGARDING “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

T.D. JAKES HAS TIES TO “RABBI” RALPH MESSER

Circa 1997 the sinfully ecumenical neo-liberal cult within the Emerging Church aka the Emergent Church began spreading the cancer of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism into the mainstream.

One of the results is a growing syncretism and a sappy sentimentality passing as the genuine robust Christian faith. An effete faith advanced by women in men’s pants.

Frankly, I think it’s a delusion these men are receiving where they become convinced it’s God’s will for us to set aside doctrinal differences in order to bring the visible church together. As I see it, that’s the underlying philosophy of the Elephant Room 2 that detonated a couple of weeks ago.

By now you’re likely aware that ER2 has now mainstreamed T.D. Jakes, who essentially said in ER2 that he was a trinitarian who chooses to express it in the language of a modalist. Then it’s even grown worse; seems if we don’t accept Jakes as a Christian brother, well, apparently it’s because we’re racist.

You can find more detail and the link to the video in James MacDonald, Elephant Room 2, And The Race Card? One of the things being missed as ER2 shockwaves hit The Gospel Coalition, Harvest Bible Chapel, and Acts 29 Network is the horrible baggage T.D. Jakes now arrives with within evangelicalism.

Here I’ll show you part of it. You may remember a while back I told you Megachurch Pastors Joel Osteen And T.D. Jakes Unite And Why You Should Care. There I explained how this came about when:

Jakes called Osteen, hoping to get Lakewood to host a men’s conference. A quick tour turned into an all-day session… Their new bond led Osteen to invite Jakes to preach.
(Online source)

In addition, Jakes’ recent Woman Thou Art Loosed 2011 conference, featuring pastrixes Paula White, Cindy Trimm, and Sheryl Brady, was hosted by the Lakewood Church of fellow Word Faith prosperity preacher Joel Osteen. All of these people are well known within Word Faith circles and regulars on TBN.

As I close this out, for now, AM special correspondent Erin Benziger tells us in her Cleaning Up After the Elephants? MacDonald Takes to the Airwaves about a recent offensive the ER2 curator has launched. Benziger reports on an interesting twist now concerning T.D. Jakes and James MacDonald.

She brings out that while MacDonald was on Chris Fabry Live:

Fabry brought up the oft-neglected (by MacDonald, anyway) elephant of T.D. Jakes’ prosperity gospel. In this part of the discussion, James MacDonald indicated that a private conversation had taken place (among whom, we do not know, though it is obvious that it was at least allegedly between MacDonald and Jakes).

During this conversation, says MacDonald, T.D. Jakes expressed that he would “not currently accept the designation of prosperity or Word of Faith as an accurate description of what he believes. [...] As of two weeks ago [Jakes] would not accept these terms in a private conversation as an accurate description of what he believes.” (Online source) 

Here’s what too many are missing: None of the prosperity preachers will accept that description either. I talked about this nearly seven years ago in Joel Osteen: Once Upon A Time… where I pointed out that once upon a time in the world Osteen lives in, it seems there was a man who just couldn’t understand:

Why anyone would call me a prosperity preacher?

So, I put in some of his teaching on that topic, and told him we call you that because that’s what you are. You know, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. If you really want the truth, note the two preachers chosen in the MSNBC news clip below:

I know I certainly had nothing to do with Chuck Scarborough picking Jakes and Osteen for his Jesus Is The Product piece. No one forced the two to align as I showed you above. And take a look at 2012 International Pastors & Leadership Conference to be put on by T.D. Jakes this coming May 3-5:

(Online source)

The featured speaker is Jakes’ new friend and fellow Word Faith prosperity preacher Joel Osteen:

(Online source)

I don’t know about you, but this sure doesn’t look like any repentance of WF by T.D. Jakes to me…

See also:

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: T.D. JAKES AND PAULA WHITE

FELLOW EVANGELEPHANTS MARK DRISCOLL AND JAMES MACDONALD REBUKE T.D. JAKES ON THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL

A REVIEW OF T.D. JAKES’ CODE ORANGE REVIVAL SERMON

Voddie Baucham: The sort of injection of race into [Elephant Room 2]; and intentional use of race in this regard is sinful.

James White:  How has that happened, as you see it?

Baucham: (pause) In a number of ways; not least of which, is (pause) these kinds of discussions that are taking place and using black people (pause) to (pause) justify what happened with T.D. Jakes in that room.

White: Mmm.

Baucham: It is appalling. It is absolutely appalling (pause) to sit behind young black pastors in order to justify what happened [at ER2]. Especially when you sit and watch that video. And I watched the second part of the video today—

White: Mm-hmm.

Baucham: And one of the things that just made me almost want to weep, is that one of the brothers in the video—today was the part of the video where James [MacDonald] was asking them, you know, “How do you think he [Jakes] did on the Trinity?”

White: Right.

Baucham: And irony of ironies, these guys thought he did well on the Trinity; they thought he was orthodox on the Trinity—and one of them even pointed to the fact that he referenced 1 Timothy 3:16. And he alluded to the fact that really helped him understand Jakes better. When those of us who have dealt with modalism (White: Mm-hmm.) from an apologetics perspective (White: Mm-hmm.) knows that, that was actually the smoking gun.

White: Yeah!

Baucham: That was not something that should have made brothers sit in that room and go, “Wow, I never thought about that.” It should ahve been something that make brothers sitting in that room go, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, he just went back to it [modalism].

White: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Baucham: You know?

White: Yeah.

Baucham: “He just went back to it.” It’s so ironic that we, you know, move away from these issues of first importance; and by the way, one of the other problems is that the real issue. Let’s just say that the brother—let’s say the brother’s trinitarian. Ok? Let’s say he’s confused; let’s say, you know—as brilliant as he is—all the things he’s been able to write—all the, you know, as advanced as he’s been able to become in all of these areas of his life. By the way I— (laughs). This is another thing that’s ironic, is that—one of the most racist things that you can do—is actually say that black people get a pass (pause) on theology, and they get a pass on, you know, things like—I don’t know—Titus 1:9 and the duties and responsibilities of a pastor, as it relates to his doctrine and theology, simply because they’re black. And because of the way that they were raised; and the context that hey were raised in. But that is the height of disrespect. But let’s just go ahead and say that, he’s trinitarian; he’s moved away from modalism, he’s orthodox in his view of the Trinity. He just, you know, doesn’t really know how to express it well. That brings up two questions. Number one: If that’s the case and you respect him, then take care of that in private. Help him, and disciple him. But number two: What about the Word of Faith, prosperity gospel?

White: Mm-hmm.

Baucham: Which is poison. Poison; and particularly poisonous in the black community.(pause)

White: So, now what I’m hearing from you right now, interestingly enough, the issue—see—the first place that I saw race brought up was in the Loritts’ blog, when it talked about “white middle-aged reformed guys.” And, I’m hearing you saying, you’re seeing it—in its fullest expression—in essence, the misuse of three black pastors as a mechanism of defense for what took place [in ER2]. And yet it’s interesting—a lot of folks in listening to that have heard statements that sounded like some of those pastors—I think specifically Bryan Loritts—were basically saying, “Well, I think there are some black pastors out there that want to have a wider audience, and so they’re sort of ganging up on Bishop Jakes.” So, it sounds like there’s multiple different streams coming all together and creating a massive amount of confusion; depending on how we’re listening and how we understand what the motivations were behind the person speaking.

Baucham. Yeah. This is wrong on so many levels. It is absolute—it’s poison; it’s like a cancer. And it has metastasized now. And this is just the latest expression; and it’s grieveous. What’s ironic is—that in the midst of all of this—the guy who comes out smelling like a rose (pause White: laughs)—is T.D. Jakes.

White: (laughs) T.D. Jakes. That’s true, that’s true. (laughs again) Yeah, you’re probably right. He’s—there’s no two ways about it. Even though, I would like to think that—on the positive level—people have been caused to think about modalism a little bit. It is discouraging (clears throat) to recognize that those who actually know modalism best have the quietest voices in this situation. And those—the loudest voices—in other words the biggest platforms, did not show themselves to be overly insightful as to—not only what modalism is—and how modalists speak, but making direct application to the Christian life, the Gospel—the reasons—the importance of why modalism totally undercuts the sacrificial work of Christ, and the worship of the Church, and all the rest of these things. There just doesn’t seem to have been—to be almost anybody—who has a really big platform that has brought that kind of thing to the fore. Now you had mentioned specifically though—a lot of people have mentioned to me—let’s put it this way, a lot of people had mentioned to me that they interpreted some of the things that were said in the interview—especially the first part of the interview—as being directed at pretty well-known individuals. That’s not really the case, is it?

Baucham: No, I don’t think it was… What I am here to address—what I do think is absolutely crucial—is that the Body [of Christ] is being divided over this [race] issue. And the Body is being divided over a man [T.D. Jakes] who is one of the most poisonous influences in the [visible] church today.

White: Now, you’ve been speaking about this for a long time. Help our listeners to understand.

Baucham: Yes.

White: Why would you say something like that; because so many people  look at him and they see success, they see—he’s been on the cover of Time magazine, for crying out loud. I’m—is Time still being published? It might be, I don’t know. (Baucham laughs) Who really knows anymore—but, you know, here’s the very picture of success and prominence and all the rest of this stuff, and yet here you’re talking about a “poisonous influence.” Why would that be?

Baucham: Two things. One, the doctrine of the Trinity. And I don’t mean by that, that he’s influencing people because he’s out there teaching publicly on the Trinity.

White: Right.

Baucham: There are clips of him, you know, teaching on the Trinity—but those things are few and far between. He’s smart enough to not build his empire on that issue. I mean, he knows that. He’s smart enough not to do that. You gotta go and search for those things that he’s taught on the Trinity. But [the issue's] his absolute perversion of the Gospel. The Word of Faith movement, the prosperity gospel, is a poison. It is a cancer. It is destroying people. It is absolutely destroying lives. It is another gospel. It is to be condemned. And it was not even addressed in this whole process. And [T.D. Jakes] is the chief purveyor. I mean, he is the godfather. Again, you know, there’s been a sort of meteoric rise of, you know, smilin’ Joel here in Houston. But T.D. Jakes—T.D. Jakes is the godfather as it relates to, you know, Word faith teachers, and so on and so forth. It breaks my heart that this is being allowed, and that he is basically given entre into whole nuther layer of evangelicalism.

White: Hmm.

Baucham: Besides that, my wife is from Dallas—I made this point in—in my blog piece. My wife is from Dallas. I have friends in Dallas; I preach in Dallas a lot. [I] know pastors in Dallas, churches in Dallas. I have seen, firsthand, the influence that T.D. Jakes has had over the last decade since he came to Dallas. He has not made evangelicalism in Dallas more thoughtful, more theological, more Biblical, more Gospel-centered. That has not been his impact. His impact has been quite the opposite, in fact. (29:30-40:06, Online source)

See also:

VODDIE BAUCHAM ACCUSES ER2 DEFENDERS OF CULT-LIKE ‘ETHNIC GNOSTICISM’

T.D. JAKES IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM II, SESSION 4 TRANSCRIPT

T.D. JAKES IS HERETICAL CONCERNING MODALISM WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT