The following is an exchange in the comments section at Strange Baptist Fire. First a little background for those who might be new to this issue of Ray Comfort being publicly yoked with Word Faith wolves like John Avanzini, Jesse Duplantis, Mike Murdock, and Rod Parsley in the advertising for the Inspiring Excellence conference, which is currently on-going as I write this.

Pastor Dustin S. Segers of Shepherd’s Fellowship of Greensboro published An Open Letter to Ray Comfort a few days ago. In it he took a position similar to mine, e.g. in Ray Comfort Must Warn Word Faith Wolves. What needs to be remembered here is that I was the one who initially discovered that critics were already discussing this issue negatively.

I then forwarded what I had found onto Ingrid Schlueter. She then attempted to contact Ray Comfort privately as I privately contacted someone at Way of the Master whom I knew a little bit from emailing with them on other issues. I would say that this hardly qualifies that we then be treated as if we were enemies of Ray Comfort and WOTM.

And Mark Spence, whom I speak with below, is:

the Dean of Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort’s School of Biblical Evangelism where he currently administers to about 10,000 students… Mark has been the personal assistant to Ray Comfort for nearly a decade.

He is a gifted expositor of God’s word, and resides in Southern California… (Online source)

The only edits in the following simply corrected grammatical errors and/or typos:

Mark Spence Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 1:45 am

I wouldn’t be surprised if something great is happening behind the scenes with one of the WOF teachers that Ray can’t bring to the public. I’m prone to give him the benefit of doubt right now.

Ken Silva Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

“I’m prone to give him the benefit of doubt right now.”

As his personal assistant “for many years” this doesn’t exactly come as a shock. But for three years now of Ray allowing himself to be publicly advertised along with these blasphemers is a bit much.

Not to mention the misinformation, which was given to me when I tried privately and discreetly to warn WOTM that this [conference] had now been discovered by critics.

And it didn’t take Word Faith wolves three years to damn Walter Martin when he spoke out against their teachings.

Mark Spence Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

“But for three years now of Ray allowing himself to be publicly advertised along with these blasphemers is a bit much.”

Says who? It’s obvious you’ve never dealt with this kind of a situation yourself. I personally know some of the teachers whom YOU respect greatly have encouraged Ray to stay on track. Ray has no relationship with any of these guys except one who confided in him about something personal. Ray has turned down meals to hang out with them. He simply won’t do it.

Ray is far from adhering to their doctrine. The third season of Ray’s TV show demonstrates a bit where his heart is at with some of the best thinkers around like James White, Phil Johnson, John MacArthur, D James Kennedy, RC Sproul, etc…

“Not to mention the misinformation which was given to me.”

No misinformation was given to you friend. Is it possible you simply misunderstood the information that was given to you. Do you really expect someone who answers the phone at our ministry or answers one of the many thousands of emails that come into the ministry each week to have all the information themselves?

“didn’t take Word Faith wolves three years to damn Walter Martin when he spoke out against their teachings.”

Is it possible to reach them without poking them in the eye?

It’s interesting how you get to call the shots on how Ray should approach this situation with these people.

Seems to me your fighting the wrong battle friend. You at least don’t have all your facts in order, nor are you privy to all the details. …and that’s ok. Ray is surrounded by some great men whom YOU respect that agree 100% with his approach and only after hearing them out did he agree to proceed with this engagement. All I’m saying is there is more than meets the public eye (that includes you), yet you are determined to be in that inner circle or else you will ‘expose Ray as a misguided pawn’. At what point do you “hope all things?”

For what it’s worth, I wanted to chime in a bit and say you don’t have all the facts nor will you be given them. …and that’s ok.

I’ll let you have the final word.

Until His nets are full,
Mark

Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura, Soli Deo Gloria, Solus Christus

Ken Silva Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

“Says who? It’s obvious you’ve never dealt with this kind of a situation yourself.”

I do hope you’re not trying to deny that this is the third time Ray has spoken for Thompson because the link from the archive proving it was posted on a website VERY critical of Ray. And the Lord is my witness that I did provide this privately to WOTM almost 2 full days prior to Ingrid Schlueter’s initial post.

It was only after I was ignored that I later posted the link after Ingrid’s post. Now I can see why I was treated as such. And as far as this conference I wouldn’t allow myself to have to deal with a situation like this.

“I personally know some of the teachers whom YOU respect greatly have encouraged Ray to stay on track.”

Argumentum ad populum aside, while I always listen to what people have to say, I am only bound by what the Bible rightly interpreted says. Therefore I can respectfully disagree with said teachers because I am persuaded of the Lord that they are in error concerning this matter.

“Ray has no relationship with any of these guys except one who confided in him about something personal. Ray has turned down meals to hang out with them. He simply won’t do it.” Straw man. Nobody I am involved with said that he did or even implied otherwise.

“Ray is far from adhering to their doctrine. The third season of Ray’s TV show demonstrates a bit where his heart is at with some of the best thinkers around like James White, Phil Johnson, John MacArthur, D James Kennedy, RC Sproul, etc…”

A nice commercial addressing another straw man. No one said Ray does and I have personally and specifically said that I do not believe he does.

“[Quoting me] ‘Not to mention the misinformation which was given to me.’” No misinformation was given to you friend. Is it possible you simply misunderstood the information that was given to you.”

Please, I will politely advise you to be very careful here. How do you know what information was given to me? Answer: Based on your comment here, you don’t, friend. But if I have to clear my name I will not hesitate to publish publicly the actual emails, which I still have.

“Do you really expect someone who answers the phone at our ministry or answers one of the many thousands of emails that come into the ministry each week to have all the information themselves?” Well, as you can see in a case like this if they don’t you’re not acting very wisely. But the person with whom I was dialoguing via email does have personal access to Ray.

[Quoting me] “‘didn’t take Word Faith wolves three years to damn Walter Martin when he spoke out against their teachings.’ Is it possible to reach them without poking them in the eye?”

So now you’re going to be foolish enough to take shots at Walter Martin’s integrity? Who said he “poked them in the eye?” You did. That fact is that Martin privately approached them ala Matthew 18, even though he said it really doesn’t apply in the public arena, and was rebuffed rudely. Only then did he publicly attack their doctrine—not them—their doctrine. Sorry, no eye-poking there.

“It’s interesting how you get to call the shots on how Ray should approach this situation with these people.” Wrong. “I” don’t “get to call” anything; I appealed to the Scripture. And are you saying, 1) I haven’t any right to privately attempt to alert WOTM to this situation; and 2) that Ray is somehow above reproach, friend?
Well, here’s a news flash for you. 2 Timothy 4:2 is part of my calling as a pastor-teacher, and Ray is just as accountable to the Word of God as any other Christian.

“Seems to me your fighting the wrong battle friend. You at least don’t have all your facts in order, nor are you privy to all the details. …and that’s ok.” 1) God knows, and a couple of associates also know, my personal anguish over this. All I did after consultation with people close to me was try to privately alert WOTM to critics who were already talking about this and to suggest Ray make a public statement. I did not receive the courtesy of a reply at that point, and Ray didn’t say anything public until after Ingrid—and then later—Apprising Ministries went public.

And 2) I can, as a last resort, make public these emails–which I have saved–and they will show that I do have my “facts in order.” We also happen to know more on this issue than it appears you think we do. But we had not written anything further (until now) because we have more respect for Ray than you have made clear that WOTM has for us. You, however, are beginning to cause me to seriously reconsider my kindness in this matter.

“Ray is surrounded by some great men whom YOU respect that agree 100% with his approach and only after hearing them out did he agree to proceed with this engagement.” Answered above.

“All I’m saying is there is more than meets the public eye (that includes you), yet you are determined to be in that inner circle or else you will ‘expose Ray as a misguided pawn’. At what point do you ‘hope all things?’”

This is a false judgment because you have zero idea of my motivation in writing. Please know that I feel you’re welcome to your views but the fact is that you couldn’t be more wrong. I will also admonish you to repent for judging another’s heart.

Also I think it’s most interesting to see spiritual pride come emerging from Comfort’s personal assistant when all I did was to try and help privately. I think it’s important to note here that the day before this discussion I personally posted An Appeal from Ray Comfort and Living Waters at CRN. But it was the source at WOTM who left me no choice in this matter but to go public. And you may rest assured that now I completely see that I’m not worthy.

“For what it’s worth, I wanted to chime in a bit and say you don’t have all the facts nor will you be given them. …and that’s ok.” Oh, you’ve made it abundantly clear that someone like myself who once considered myself a friend of WOTM now understands fully what is thought of me.

“I’ll let you have the final word.” As you wish. Sadly I must tell you I am afraid that based on our “conversation” here this isn’t over–”A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city, And contentions are like the bars of a citadel.” (Proverbs 18:19)

Mark Spence Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

Insert deep sigh here. Mind you I’m not rolling my eyes. At face value, if I didn’t have all the facts I would agree with your initial contention.

God is sovereign. May His will be done. God bless,
Mark

Ken Silva Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

“God is sovereign.” Yes my brother, He is.

“May His will be done.” Amen. (Online source)

And finally per his permission I publish the below email, which I literally received as I finished this piece. It comes from my good friend Jim Luppachino of Watcher’s Lamp, who is also on AM’s Board of Directors, a fellow contributor at Christian Research Net, and a regular listener of WOTM:

If Ray is working to bring one out of their error great.

But stop the public assembling on stage because it causes other believers like me confusion.

The end doesn’t justify the means.