In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. (2 Timothy 4:1-2)

The Pastor-Teacher Is To Proclaim What God Has Said Regardless Of Popular Opinion

The issue of whether people who are unrepentant in practicing a lifestyle of homosexuality can become and/or are Christian will prove to be a defining issue within evangelicalism. For example Apprising Ministries showed you in Phyllis Tickle and the Emerging Church: It’s Not If Sola Scriptura Ends But When that an eyewitness present at the recent Great Emergence (GE) conference concerning The Great Emergence, the latest book by Phyllis Tickle, informed us:

Today was day one in The Great Emergence conference.  To a large extent it was a deeper summary of each part of the book, including some of the keys dates, pivotal moments and events that helped create what we’re experiencing now. [Phyllis Tickle] made a significant point about how this turn is deeply affecting the concept of Sola Scriptura.

One of the things that caught my attention was Tickle’s comment that there are forty-four specific events that underline the move away from Sola Scriptura.  I would love to see what those 44 are but that would be like icing on the cake.  The final subject in the turn away will be how we address homosexuality in the church.  She reiterated that it’s not if Sola Scriptura ends but when… (Online source)

In Emergent Church Theologian Tony Jones And His Unrepentant Homosexual Christians you will also see this came right on the heels of  an announcement at the interspiritual Beliefnet by Tony Jones, author of the book The New Christianity Christians and a leading theologian in the Emergent Church, that in his view unrepentant practicing homosexuals can become/are Christians:

And yet, all the time I could feel myself drifting toward acceptance that gay persons are fully human persons and should be afforded all of the cultural and ecclesial benefits that I am.  (”Aha!” my critics will laugh derisively, “I knew he and his ilk were on a continuous leftward slide!”)

In any case, I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (at least as much as any of us can!) and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state. (Online source, bold theirs)

And then in the AM post The Emerging Church, The Bible & Homosexuality: Enough With The Bible Already; Make Way For Homosexuality In Evangelicalism we bring to your attention another of these initial shots being fired at Sola Scriptura. This one by “Presbymergent” Adam Walker Cleveland who says:

If it is the Bible that is causing us to delay accepting and celebrating LGBT persons as being fully human and fully created in the image of God, just as they are, then perhaps we need to say, “Enough with the Bible already…” (Online source, bold his)

Men and women, all of the above is not simply some isolated coincidences because Cleveland was a contributor to the recent book An Emergent Manifesto of Hope (EMH), which was co-edited by the Emergent Church leader Tony Jones and his Emerging Church pastor Doug Pagitt. AM already showed you Pagitt’s involvement with Tickle and his own excitement about the then up-coming GE conference in Phyllis Tickle: Tickling Itching Emergent Ears. Both Pagitt and Jones were presenters at GE, Pagitt wrote the foreword to Tickle’s GE book and in the video clip below Emergent Swami Brian McLaren sings praise to Tickle.

It doesn’t take a college education to see these Emergent rebels against Sola Scriptura recognize the timid time in which they live. They know very well that the mainstream evangelical community is, right now, following the exact same path—and drinking the exact same spiritual strychnine—as did the now dead mainline denominations. AM was also among the first Christian ministries to point out that in his first book Velvet Elvis Rob Bell, who is every bit as much of an icon to youth in the Emerging Church as Elvis Presley was for an older generation, rejects Sola Scriptura:

This is part of the problem with continually insisting that one of the absolutes of the Christian faith must be a belief that “Scripture alone” is our guide. It sounds nice but it is not true… When people say that all we need is the Bible, it is simply not true. (067,068, emphasis mine)

Not long ago Todd Friel, then of Way of the Master, in his ebullient way said it’s, A Matter Of Time Before Rob Bell Says Publicly Practicing Homosexuality Is Ok For Christians. As one who’s been monitoring Bell’s slide into apostasy for a few years I quite agree. And now in the following we might begin to see a bit more evidence that Bell may indeed be getting closer to announcing that very thing as we examine a couple of posts by Erica Martino, who is the wife of one of Rob Bell’s friends, Joe Martino.

As I mentioned earlier today in For The Christian Jesus Has Spoken On The Issue Of Homosexuality (FTCJ) these friends of Rob Bell are members in covenant community with, and regularly attend, Mars Hill Bible Church, which was planed by Bell who is still teaching pastor. I mentioned in that previous post that I hadn’t originally intended to link back to Erica’s blog. However, due to an accusation concerning my own heterosexual orientation, as a pastor-teacher, I now feel it is important to address the issues involved as definitely illustrative of the fruit of Bell’s teachings, and quite possibly, his own position re. homosexuality.

Just Because I’m Happy; It Doesn’t Make Me Gay

Now as a heterosexual man completely confortable within my own sexuality I will now remind you of a prior AM piece It’s Time To Rethink The Issue Of Homosexuality. Within it I have already shared that as a former professional musician once living in Los Angeles I have personally known many homosexual people. As a matter of fact I also mentioned a friend of mine, whom I also worked for, happened to be quite open about his homosexuality. I, on the other hand, was also quite open about my Christianity. And, the Lord be praised, one day he even said as a compliment to me, “You act like a Christian is supposed to act.”

With this as necessary background let me point out that in a post called Rob Bell and his stance on homosexuality I am taken to task for my writings concerning Bell by Erica Martino who, as I pointed out previously, happens to be the wife of Rob’s friend Joe. Being criticized all goes with the turf I play on so I’ve no problem with Erica including me with, “These men and women [who] are like Dogs returning to their vomit.” I also discussed in the aforementioned FTCJ post an exchange I had with Bruce Gerencser, with whom I have waged war spiritually before, in the combox of Erica’s post.

Gerencser tells us at his blog Bruce Droppings that he’s “a retired minister, having spent almost 30 years in the ministry.” He made the choice to open our discussion at Erica’s blog with the following ad hominem:

Here’s the deal guys…….Ken is gay. Those who become obsessed with the sexuality of others often have skeletons in their own closet. So Ken, I question your heterosexuality. I think you are hiding your true gayness. Come out from among Him saith the Lord!! … Quite frankly I would rather be in hell with Rob than in heaven with Ken. Bruce (Online source)

This would lead to the following, which now goes to the central point of this particular article and also provides a perfect example of how Christ-followers hostile to Sola Scriptura are attempting to make it appear as if there is some difference between God the Father of the Old Testament and God the Son in the New Testament. And if you wish to defend the Gospel and the Bible from this malicious attack on God’s Word and the attempt to use Jesus to make it appear that He approves of the practice of homosexuality then you’ll need to be ready for this:

You ask if Jesus says homosexuality is a sin? Of course not. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. I’ll wait for you to find a proof text. Make sure it is in red. (Online source)

By telling me to “make sure it is in red” Gerenscer is revealing he knows very well Jesus is not recorded in the Gospels as speaking directly to the issue of homosexuality. Now I attempted to leave any further discussion alone by simply pointing Gerencser to Apprising Ministries: Shocking New Evidence Jesus Condemned The Practice Of Homosexuality but unfortunately he replied:

Ken,

I won’t play the game. I don’t read your site. Every time I try and go there my browser crashes. Thank God for providence. So real simple give me the verses in the NT where Jesus directly spoke about homosexuality. NO song and dance. NO shuck and jive. Put up or shut up,

Straight up asking for your proof, from the infallible, inerrant Word of God. (KJV is even OK with me) Remember no “inference” or “God talking and we know Jesus was God” ………Just the verses were Jesus spoke or taught on the issue of homosexuality. You are the one who has made this foolish claim.

I agree the Bible addresses homosexuality but Jesus never addressed the issue. You are the one speaking in Jesus name (I am just speaking in Bruce’s name, maybe you’ve seen the movie) so please show me the verses. Thank you in advance. (Online source)

And for one who claims to have been a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ the following from Gerencser from his next two responses to me is very sad indeed:

Ken,

Nice dodge. As I thought no verses. You said Jesus spoke about homosexuality. He did not. You “assume” information that is not in the text. I do not base the condemnation of millions to the Lake of Fire on “inference.” God better be clear on this one…….and it seems Ken is much clearer than God, especially Jesus. (Online source)

Ok just one more little point. Ken, I challenged your “Jesus said” position. I never said the Bible did not speak to the issue of homosexuality. Jesus didn’t………..and that’s just the facts. (Online source)

Since our interest here is attempting to gain some further insight into Rob Bell’s own position on homosexuality I’ll simply place below a quick composite of my answer to Gerenscer’s foolish statements:

Wrong. I’ll make this very simple. You are correct for a change: “the infallible, inerrant Word of God… [The] Bible addresses homosexuality.” Since you admit that the Bible is God’s Word; then you will agree it teaches that Jesus is God. In the Bible God already adressed the issue of homosexuality in the OT. Therefore whatever God says concerning homosexuality in the OT Jesus, the Creator, also says concerning homosexuality in the OT.

In the NT Christ tells us God the Holy Spirit would speak for Him. God does not change; and Jesus Christ does not change. The teachings concerning homosexuality spoken by the Vicar of Christ, God the Holy Spirit, in the NT are in complete agreement with the OT. No way around it for one who holds to the Bible as the inerrant and infallible Word of God and the Deity of Christ. God has spoken in both the OT and the NT condemning the practice of homosexuality as sin.

There’s your straight up asking for proof, from the infallible, inerrant Word of God. You cannot separate God the Father and God the Son on this issue. Jesus did address sexual immorality, which includes honosexuality, and He most likely felt that as God He didn’t stutter the first time so His view is clear enough.The Bible is God’s Word; Jesus is God, therefore, whatever the Bible says on homosexuality, Jesus says on homosexuality.

As this discussion with Gerenscer was going on without my knowledge Dave Marriott, a friend of mine, attempted to help Rob Bell’s friends take a closer look at their conduct, which is a reflection on MHBC and Bell himself as their friend and teaching pastor:

Joe and Erika,

I’m shocked at your posture in this thread. I cannot believe that those who claim to attend a church where all are loved and accepted, where individuals can find a haven of rest —- that these individuals would sit back and watch Bruce denigrate the inspiration and authority of the Scriptures and call a married Christian man a homosexual. Way to take the high ground guys. (Online source)

The reason I introduce this into evidence is because it’s possible that in Joe Martino’s response to Marriott we might catch a glimpse of his friend Bell’s own position concerning the practice of homosexuality. Note Martino echoes Gerenscer’s attempt to pit Jesus against the crystal clear teaching of the Old Testament that the practice of homosexuality is sin. In fact, at that time it was actually a capital offense and one was to be painfully executed if caught:

Hi Dave,

First of all, there is no K in Erica.

Secondly, have you ever heard of Ted Haggard? He was exactly what you claim for Ken. A “married Christian man” who guess what? You remember, turns out he had gay lovers. I think that makes him gay. For all I know, the same could be true of Ken. I mean, the man cannot answer a question without doing dances that would make the produces of “Dancing with the Stars” proud. There seems to be many parrallells between Ken’s “ministry” and Haggard’s. I applaud Bruce, for throwing these thoughts out there.

Bruce is a grown man, who can speak for himself. He makes a valid point that we have no record of the God/Man Jesus Christ saying anything about Homosexuality in the Scriptures. Does the Bible speak about it? Yes, but I don’t see Jesus talking about it while He was on earth. Probably because those moral, upstanding Romans weren’t involved in it. Besides, what do you want us to do? Maybe we should spank Bruce? Maybe we should take his computer away? He’s in 50’s for crying out loud.

You’ve chosen to align yourself with Ken and attack Rob. That is your choice, but don’t come here and play all cutsie about Mars. Erica wasn’t mean to Ken in the OP. It’s not even just about Ken. It is about what God is doing in and through Mars. You and Ken and all your little posts can’t stop that. (Online source, bold mine)

Perhaps what we see in the bold type above will be the same dodge Bell himself uses as to why he has not gone on the record concerning where he personally stands on the practice of homosexuality. Frankly, with Bell’s reputation of leading MHBC, “a city within the city,” which “lives for Jesus”, and with so much praise being heaped upon him as a Bible teacher, the Body of Christ has every right to expect that pastor-teacher Rob Bell will finally tell us: Does Jesus consider the practice of homosexuality sinful, or not?

Because for the regenerated Christian the answer really is clear: What God says; Jesus says. So why then can’t/won’t Rob Bell answer this simple question? And as we get set to close this, for now, while those dialogues above were progressing Rob Bell’s friend Erica went on to write A follow up post on Rob Bell and homosexuals from which I derive the title of this AM article. Sadly, as sincerely impassioned as it is, it’s filled with red herrings and straw men such as:

We have this mentality as a church that one sin is greater then the other. This is what the endless chatter is all about… When was the last time you heard endless chatter about lying, gossiping, malicious slander…for some reason we have it in our head that one sin is great then others…

I know a homosexual. She is one of the sweetest people you will ever meet. She is tore up in side… How could she be a Christian and be a lesbian? …  The lesbian I once new would not have been welcomended in most churches, the abortionist would not be welcome in most church, nor the murder, the sex offender, the rapist. Because as Christians we beleive we are better then them… (Online source) 

Let me tell you honestly that I do believe Erica is sincere, and, there is also truth in what she just said. However, all of that actually has nothing at all to do with the question I have raised; and so, I’ll share below what I said to Joe and Erica Martino, friends of Rob Bell and members of his city within the city, so prayerfully it will help us all focus on the heart of the matter:

Hopefully you will be able to grasp the actual issue here. ALL sinners are welcome to attend Christian churches, and should be encouraged to do so. The issue is: Does Rob Bell, unlike others in the Emerging Church he is associated with, believe Jesus says the practice of homosexuality is a sin. (Online source) 

That Christ’s blood was shed for sin is patently obvious to anyone who is regenerated. But, does Bell believe the practice of the homosexual lifestyle, monogomous or not, is a sin? (Online source)

See also:

ROB BELL WE WANT AN ACTUAL ANSWER TO YOUR POSITION CONCERNING THE PRACTICE OF HOMOSEXUALITY

WHERE DOES ROB BELL STAND REGARDING THE PRACTICE OF HOMOSEXUALITY? 

DON’T BE FOOLED BY THOSE WHO ONLY SAY THEY LOVE SCRIPTURE

IS ROB BELL EVANGELICAL?

ROB BELL AND CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM