A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city, And contentions are like the bars of a citadel. (Proverbs 18:19, NASB)

This Was Never Any Attack On Ray Comfort Or His WOTM

The Lord is my witness that I did not want it to come to this. However, in regard to what some are calling “the Ray Comfort issue” I am going to set the facts straight as gently as I can. Those who read Apprising Ministries already know my complete disdain for what I call the “plus-minus” apologetic. Simply: The writer’s position is well known even before they write; and yet, we still have to sit through the few obligatory “plus” points in order to get to the many “negative” points so we can then reach their foregone conclusion that they cannot “recommend” said subject.

So as my particular policy I will normally skip right past step one, e.g. that Rob Bell is indeed a gifted speaker has been covered…O, a time or a thousand. However, in the case of Ray Comfort I am dealing with a man whose ministry I have always had respect for and who, unlike Bell, has without a doubt helped scores of thousands learn to effectively preach the genuine Gospel of Jesus Christ. That Ray Comfort would go anywhere and not preach the Gospel has never—at all—been at issue in this whole unfortunate situation. We all know that he faithfully preaches his WOTM presentation without compromise.

That said, the interested reader can get the overall picture concerning what is at issue in the post On Ray Comfort and Word Faith Wolves and then further in A Revealing Conversation with Ray Comfort’s Personal Assistant. Yesterday, as of this writing, on her Crosstalk radio program Ingrid Schlueter referenced the response by Ray Comfort to an email she sent him regarding his going through with a speaking engagement for Word Faith pastor Robb Thompson and his Inspiring Excellence conference and which follows below.

For those who haven’t heard it you can find that Crosstalk program right here. And before anyone brings the charge I am breeching ethics to publish it let it be known that, in the first place, Comfort is the one who made Ingrid’s email and his own response to it available to Mark Spence. By doing so, and by his cutting off further private contact, Comfort himself is the one who chose to open the door for what I feel needs to be said in this piece.

Following is Comfort’s response to my colleague Ingrid’s letter to him:

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Ray Comfort wrote:

Ingrid,

Thank you for your email.

I have a couple of points to make, and then this issue is closed.

I don’t have, and have never had a speaker’s fee. I didn’t mention my books from the pulpit, nor did I have a book table at the conference.

I wasn’t there for monetary gain.

My books are in bookstores throughout the country, and I have no control over what books are next to mine.

When this invitation came, I unwisely didn’t inquire as to the identity of other speakers, and I was horrified to see my picture next to theirs in the advertising.

However, I had given my word that I would speak, and I therefore had to keep it “to my own hurt” (Psalm 15:4).

I will be very careful to check out the credentials of other speakers in future, and will not speak again at a prosperity conference. I turned one down some time ago, because some of the other speakers were questionable.

Ingrid, I have an important question for you.

If you were there at the conference, did you or your husband stand up and publicly warn these people about these false teachers? You know much more about them than I do. I haven’t studied what they preach. You have. People who disagree with politicians have the courage to speak out at political rallies, and they get their voice heard. I have done that at an abortion meeting, and got the message across.

I ask you that same question you asked of me, “Did these people not need a direct warning?”

One other thing. You said of Bill Gothard, “someone else who just wants to come and give his speech, sell his materials and leave.”

Feel free to say what you want about my motives, but please think twice before you malign Bill Gothard. I know Bill, and you and I aren’t worthy to wash his feet.

Sincerely, Ray

The First To Present His Case Seems Right…

At first glance this would appear to be on target concerning the “issue” Comfort has now decided to close. The problem is that Comfort doesn’t get to close the issue because he isn’t the one who opened it. Unfortunately I did. Sadly, in my efforts to be a help privately behind the scenes Ray Comfort’s personal assistant Mark Spence would later publicly attempt to impugn my motives and in the process let me know that WOTM wrongly assumed I was some “heresy hunter” looking for dirt with which to shoot down Ray Comfort. And that now turns out to be critical mistake on their part.

But even so this still could have been resolved privately as Spence was initially willing to have a conference call, which would have involved (at least) both myself and pastor Dustin Segers who authored An Open Letter to Ray Comfort over at Strange Baptist Fire. However, that offer has now been withdrawn leaving me no other avenue than this to set the facts straight in this matter. Up until now I had not even mentioned publicly that my contact at WOTM was Todd Friel.

So you see this was not at all someone who lacked the ability to look into this matter, which as you’ll see in Thank You Tom and Ingrid Schlueter was first brought to the Internet by Rick Frueh, and not by me. And now below is the actual email my colleague Ingrid sent to Comfort to which he was speaking. This way the Body of Christ can see what it was he is, in my opinion, not actually addressing:

From: Ingrid Schlueter
Date: Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:17 AM
Subject: Inspiring Excellence Conference
To: Ray Comfort
Cc: Brannon Howse, Todd Friel

Ray,

My husband and I went down to attend the Inspiring Excellence Conference in Tinley Park. We got to talk with some of the same people that you addressed on Tuesday, both services. I am preparing a full report for the show on what we heard from John Avanzini, a mere two days after you were there. We watched as Avanzini gave out “talking stones” to people for hard times that they could rub to get God to do something for them. But before the magic stones would work, they had to IGNITE their stones by donating a “gift the size of their house payment” and if they didn’t have a house, they were asked to give $500. That would work, too, he claimed. He literally gave a credit card “invitation” where people were told if they came forward and put their credit card numbers on the envelopes and left them on the stage, God was going to help them pay their mortgage off. Down the people went to the front to leave their “house payment” gifts with the crook on the stage who was wearing a Rolex, thick gold chain, and an unbelievable diamond ring, and who boasted that he is “so rich he could burn a wet mule”. He claimed that he got 5 times the amount of money he would have from Merrill Lynch for retirement because he sowed $107,000 dollars to Paul and Jan Crouch at TBN. “I got money, I got money, I got money,” he said as people cheered. He stated that he gets upset when his daughter tells the grandkids not to ask him for money as he sits at the table counting it. He also mocked her teaching them to say “thank you.” What they should have learned to say, he claimed, was “can I have some more?” The crowd erupted in cheers.

He repeatedly took the Lord’s name in vain during the course of the meeting, as we will demonstrate on air with the audio of the meeting.

While heavy metal music played, the lights flashed and giant balloons were released onto the heads of the attendees. The words “increase, increase, increase” flashed from the screens and your fake money tracts were thrown at us by the ushers. Adults and children swarmed the aisles to get the free “money”.

Afterwards, the pastor of this place, Robb Thompson, the same one who received a $25,000 dollar “birthday gift” from his sidekick and fellow Inspiring Excellence conference speaker, Mike Murdock, (*Fort Worth Telegram has the details on this and just how profitable these non-profits are as they gift each other with foreign made cars and massive checks from donors,) got up and gave a rambling stream of consciousness speech.

(FYI, here’s what the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram reported about Robb Thompson and your fellow conference speaker, Mike Murdock in 2004. “In 2002 and 2003, the ministry gave $72,000 to televangelist Robb Thompson of Tinley Park, Ill. Murdock has described Thompson as one of his closest friends.

The figure includes an April 2003 check for $8,500 with the notation “B. Day gift.” In July 2002, the ministry gave Thompson a $25,000 check with the notation “happy birthday!!” Thompson received another check that year for $15,000 with the notation “one house note!” No records of reimbursement for the checks could be found.

Thompson did not return a phone call seeking comment. Thompson’s birthday is in April, Illinois driver’s license records show.*

I got to speak with “Pam”, a woman who went up to leave a gift the size of her house payment at the feet of John Avanzini that night. She thought you were terrific. She also thought Avanzini who promised her that God was going to pay off her mortgage was terrific, and she invited us back the next night to hear Jesse Duplantis. She told us excitedly that crowds would be out the door for him. I’m sure they were.

We’re blowing the whistle, Ray, on what went on there. A few questions I would like to submit to you:

1. Do you believe that shiny stones can be rubbed and that, this is a quote, “You must let your stone speak to you all of the time. That is God’s plan to take you up during this perilous times and not down. Listen closely as you touch your talking stone as the Holy Ghost speaks to you through it…” and “rub that stone at the gas pump as the prices go up”. “Guys, need a wife? RUB that stone…”

That’s sorcery, Ray, not hearing from God who speaks to us IN HIS WORD.

2. Did you receive a speaker’s fee, book revenues or any other financial benefit from these same men at the conference who are ripping off God’s people? I know your books are all over their bookstore, right next to the ones by Mike Murdock and all the rest. I watched people right in front of my own eyes as people were promised that they could “ignite” their talking stones by giving Avanzini money. I wanted to cry. What do you have to say to these people who thought you were so inspiring as well?

3. Why were you telling people how to witness to Jehovah’s witnesses when they needed to be warned about the men who would rip them off later in the week? You had two chances, Ray, morning and evening. Did these people not need a direct warning?

4. Do you believe that God’s divine purpose has always been to duplicate himself in the earth and make us all little gods? John Avanzini does. I have the sound bite and am going to let listeners hear this blasphemy.

I thought you might be interested in seeing this jib jab style YouTube video someone made of the church where you spoke. Even the world is laughing at them. So whose name was flashed on the church sign when we got there? Yours and Bill Gothard’s—someone else who just wants to come and give his speech, sell his materials and leave. By the way, in the video, that’s a real photo of Robb’s new 3 million dollar house in Palos Park as reported by the Chicago Tribune real estate section. Some of your listeners helped him make another payment on it when they ignited their “talking stones” by making a credit card donation Thursday night.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KAJOhnqCwgY

You are welcome to comment on any of this prior to our show airing later in the week. I’d like to hear what you have to say to the victims of Robb Thompson, Mike Murdock, John Avanzini, and all the other lying prophets who spoke with you last week.

Ingrid

Looking At What Was Not Properly Addressed By Comfort

I’ll have more to say on this another time but for now as a pastor I feel I need to draw your attention to a few important points concerning what Comfort had to say in response to that heartfelt letter from Ingrid Schlueter above. First of all, I was the one who privately brought this conference to the attention of both Ingrid and Todd Friel. In addition I also privately emailed two other pastors whom I consider friends in order to seek their input about this conference as well.

Secondly anyone who felt it important enough, once it has been brought to their attention, could have found that information contained within Ingrid’s email in about ten minutes. I know because I did so myself. But let’s look a little more closely at what Comfort says:

I don’t have, and have never had a speaker’s fee. I didn’t mention my books from the pulpit, nor did I have a book table at the conference. I wasn’t there for monetary gain.

No one can really fault Comfort for this and as far as I’ve seen nobody even has done so. However, what is clear right now is that WOTM in financial need and I also know from a brother pastor who attempted to bring in WOTM for an upcoming conference what the specifics are to have WOTM at a function. While what follows is pretty standard, and completely within Biblical guidelines, the fact remains that the organization this pastor represents was told that if one is to have WOTM at an event travel tickets and motel accommodations are to be paid and a specific amount of people must also be guaranteed.

Comfort continues by mentioning, “My books are in bookstores throughout the country, and I have no control over what books are next to mine.” But this is not really at issue because we aren’t talking about “bookstores throughout the country.” Ingrid was speaking about the bookstore of this particular Word Faith church itself who was the host yet again for this Word Faith event. And I am not judging his intent here. However the fact is, when Comfort accepted this invitation he would have thereby insured that his materials would be sold at this particular event, which had to have met said guarantee of people present who then just might purchase WOTM materials.

But the selling of WOTM materials is not even a problem at all. The dilemma begins with Comfort sharing the platform with Word faith wolves and that’s the issue. Family Harvest Church is unquestionably a Word Faith church with a pastor who is heavily hooked into other Word Faith wolves such as his good friend and blatant heretic John Avanzini. And yet Comfort says:

When this invitation came, I unwisely didn’t inquire as to the identity of other speakers, and I was horrified to see my picture next to theirs in the advertising.

Yes, on the surface this sounds very contrite and humble but there’s more to the story, which I also shared privately with Todd Friel two days before Ingrid would write her initial post. Comfort says that he was “horrified” to see himself publicly linked with these guys. So he didn’t know that this conference was a platform for Word Faith heretics? That’s rather odd because Comfort has been hosted by Robb Thomson at least twice before.

In fact, in the LivingWaters.com May 2005 Newsletter WOTM is advertising that “Ray will be speaking at Inspiring Excellence Conference on July 21-22 in Tinley Park, IL.” Did Ray Comfort really not know this? I haven’t found reference to the 2007 appearance as “Special Speaker,” but I do have to think that the first time he was there Comfort would have at the very least met the host Robb Thompson, who is as big a wolf as any of the other Word Faith speakers. And suffice to say that Comfort’s first appearance for Thompson must have at least generated enough positive response to warrant Comfort being asked back again in 2007 as well as again this year.

Comfort then misses the proper Biblical point when he says, “However, I had given my word that I would speak, and I therefore had to keep it ‘to my own hurt’ (Psalm 15:4).” The correct Christian response would be that as soon as he became aware of these Word Faith wolves, apparently from Ingrid and myself, Comfort should have broken his human word and obeyed God rather than man in order to follow the Lord’s command in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 not to be yoked with unbelievers. And it’s well past time that we face the extremely strong likelihood that Jesus actually means what He says — “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). Those Word Faith wolves are no brothers of mine.

Comfort then continues:

I will be very careful to check out the credentials of other speakers in future, and will not speak again at a prosperity conference. I turned one down some time ago, because some of the other speakers were questionable.

Ok, that would have been the wise thing to do all along. But wait a minute. Comfort has said that he turned a conference down “some time ago” because “some of the other speakers were questionable.” Is he then saying that the speakers at the conference in question, which included John Avanazini, Jessie Duplantis and Rod Parsley, aren’t questionable? The very title of his recent article at Christian Worldview Network, “A Public Statement From Ray Comfort on His Speaking At A Conference With Prosperity Gospel Speakers”, shows us that Comfort cannot say that he didn’t know he was going to be sharing the platform with Word Faith preachers.

So if Comfort turned down an event with questionable speakers before then why did he tell the Church:

I have never turned down any request to speak because I thought that the church’s doctrine was unbiblical. In fact, they are the invitations I have gladly accepted because I know that false conversions are the fruit of their heretical doctrines. Unsaved people sit in pews in the millions in this country because they have never heard the biblical gospel–and I have to say with Paul, “How will they hear without a preacher?”

What I have been doing for all these years has been below the radar screen of public scrutiny, until recently. Suddenly the spotlights are on and I am targeted (and fired at) as one that is endorsing false doctrine. I am not and have never been a prosperity preacher. I think it is a great error to say that Jesus was rich, etc., or to come to Him for wealth. I preach the simple gospel of Jesus Christ crucified for the sin of the world. That is the heart and soul of my preaching and teaching…

And so, I will continue to preach open air to anyone who will listen, to preach at atheist conventions if I am invited, and to preach to those who are deceived by false doctrine. That may mean that my so-called reputation will be marred, and that I will feel the pain of what is commonly called “friendly fire.” (Online source)

The truth is Comfort dealt with no “friendly fire” because Ingrid didn’t shoot at him, nor did I. If he really wants to know what it’s like when I “fire” on a target he can always ask Mr. and Mrs. Tony Jones. But Comfort’s misguided appeal for sympathy aside, after the above and then his response to Ingrid I think we now have to ask Ray Comfort, which is it? Comfort has said he believes in turning down speaking engagements if the speakers are questionable, but then Comfort has also stated that he needs to take any platform in order to preach the Gospel in spite of how questionable other speakers might be?

I for one think we deserve some clarification concerning this conflicting information and a kind of semi-stand by WOTM concerning this issue. And then in his reply to Ingrid below Comfort actually employs a category switch in the argument such as a politician might try and use. And as you read this once again consider that Comfort is using the same type of rhetoric he often uses in his WOTM presentation upon his sister in Christ who wrote him with a legitimate concern because she cares about him:

Ingrid, I have an important question for you. If you were there at the conference, did you or your husband stand up and publicly warn these people about these false teachers? You know much more about them than I do. I haven’t studied what they preach. You have.

People who disagree with politicians have the courage to speak out at political rallies, and they get their voice heard. I have done that at an abortion meeting, and got the message across. I ask you that same question you asked of me, “Did these people not need a direct warning?”

Men and women, this is the logical fallacy of the false analogy. That fact is that Ingrid was in the audience collecting data to do subsequent public rebukes (apples), but Ray Comfort was already on the platform and directly involved with this conference (oranges). It was Comfort who accepted this invitation and he was the one with the microphone and the very public forum from which to do such a direct warning.

Well, I must tell you that I happen to have the CDs of Comfort’s two messages and after listening to them I have to wonder why you, Ray Comfort, expected your sister to be willing to cause a public disturbance in the audience but yet you yourself apparently did not “have the courage to speak out.” Because as someone who was once a part of the Word Faith movement early in my Christian life I can tell you with certainty there is nothing even close to resembling a repudiation of Word Faith heresies to be found in Comfort’s presentations.

But at Inspiring Excellence as Ray Comfort was sharing a series of things he has done in ministry and which he says have “cost” him he did say:

So we moved to Huntington Beach and for the last two-and-a-half years I’ve taken a team—every Saturday—to Huntington [Beach] and preached Christ crucified. I would rather stay at home on a Saturday afternoon and watch sport[s] on television; but compassion won’t let me. It’ll cost you, it’ll cost me. It’ll cost us our time and our energies.

You know, after I heard Ray Comfort say the above I couldn’t help wondering: What exactly did it cost him to appear at the Inspiring Excellence conference? And where was this compassion when Comfort chose to leave people who may have responded to the Gospel message in the very hands of these Word Faith wolves without warning these precious lambs of the grave danger they are in?